TheSamba.com :: View topic - Van Cafe headlight upgrade kit and relay????????

Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:27 pm

This seems like a really good deal and only $100 total. Anybody do this with theres? It would be for a square lights.

Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:06 pm

Sure, GW sells the same setup. I think I got mine from them. The relays are a good idea regardless, and can boost light output some by themselves, but in any case they take the heavy load off the underrated headlight switch.

The bulb upgrade is nice, too, much brighter, but the light pattern is still piss-poor with the US squares. I'm not up on the details, but there are definitely better lamps to use.

Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:18 pm

Well worth doing !

I upgraded to Eruo H4's at the same time, wow let there be light !

Tue Nov 11, 2008 8:50 pm

meyervw wrote: This seems like a really good deal and only $100 total. Anybody do this with theres? It would be for a square lights.

I did mine a while back and measured voltage at the light.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=300841&highlight=

basically:
Before Kit (with engine running):

Driver Side:
Low beam Low: 12.4V
Low beam High: 11.4V
High Beam: 11.5V

Passenger Side
Low beam Low: 12.8V
Low beam High: 12.9V
High Beam: 12.8V

After Kit : 13.1V across the board. And brighter lights.

Tue Nov 11, 2008 9:46 pm

Just a little voltage drop causes a huge reduction in light. However your bulbs will probably last forever. :lol:

This mod is well worth doing!

Tue Nov 11, 2008 11:16 pm

1. Adding relays is an excellent move, it allows you to run brighter lamps safely.

2. going to brighter H3 lamps is moderately better than stock, if you keep the stock lenses. The Euro lenses use brighter H4 lamps

3. going to Euro len$e$ gives fantastic light. Square euro lenses are very expensive, but

a. there is a workaround using a Saab 900 light bucket and a Cibie lenses http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=274814

b. or you can go to the $outh African Grille and use round lenses. I think this is really cool

c. or you can go to 7" round Hella H4 lenses with a Grille from the 1985 model year,Van Cafe sells the round buckets too. This is the same 7" round Euro code beam as the SA Grille uses (difference being the SA Grille has an extra set of high beam lenses, but the high beam in the 7" round is fantastic all by itself)

Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:59 am

Yes indeed, I definitely want to upgrade the lenses, I'm fond of the SA grille arrangement. Since the relays are in place, I'm all set for power!

Oh, one thing about the kits: both the relays supplied are rated 30A, but with all the upgraded high-beam lamps on there's 400w on that circuit, which is 33A. I wouldn't trust a cheap relay to safely handle its label rating continuously, so the one handling high-beams is underrated for sure, and it's probably dropping V a bit too as a result. So you can either add an extra one and split the high-beam circuit, or find one of the 40A Bosch ones VWused in several places in the van. There's one in the left rear pillar on AC-equipped vans, and I even found an unused one sitting in my relay panel. They're the ones with a big "53" printed on top. The 40A rating is printed on the side.

Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:04 am

Good point about the relay amperage. Terry sells his kits with 40 amp relays, genuine VW, as are the socket assemblies. I have installed several of his kits .

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=150047

Mark

tencentlife wrote: Yes indeed, I definitely want to upgrade the lenses, I'm fond of the SA grille arrangement. Since the relays are in place, I'm all set for power!

Oh, one thing about the kits: both the relays supplied are rated 30A, but with all the upgraded high-beam lamps on there's 400w on that circuit, which is 33A. I wouldn't trust a cheap relay to safely handle its label rating continuously, so the one handling high-beams is underrated for sure, and it's probably dropping V a bit too as a result. So you can either add an extra one and split the high-beam circuit, or find one of the 40A Bosch ones VWused in several places in the van. There's one in the left rear pillar on AC-equipped vans, and I even found an unused one sitting in my relay panel. They're the ones with a big "53" printed on top. The 40A rating is printed on the side.

Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:22 am

Yeah well we've been over this about a million times here!

There is another 40A relay labelled "18" that has the #30 spade much wider and would require a bigger push-on. You've probably seen this, Mark. I think that may actually be the one you find in the rear pillar, can't recall.

Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:27 am

Yes, relay type "18" is the 40 amp with the larger spades for 30&87.
VW part num 191 937 503. Pretty common. There are also some 60 amp and 70 amp versions with those same big spades.

Mark

tencentlife wrote: Yeah well we've been over this about a million times here!

There is another 40A relay labelled "18" that has the #30 spade much wider and would require a bigger push-on. You've probably seen this, Mark. I think that may actually be the one you find in the rear pillar, can't recall.

Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:42 am

> with all the upgraded high-beam lamps on there's 400w on that circuit, which is 33A.

True for square lenses, not true for SA Grille

The SA Grille, I believe, only uses 310 watts on high beam.

http://gowesty.com/ec_view_details.php?id=3636&search_phrase=grill&start=
"Kit includes grill, inner H-3 55W driving lights, black center emblem, custom wiring harness with H3/H4 bulb plugs"
"we highly recommend upgrading to Hella "Vision Plus" H-4 lenses (pn#70477) for superior lens technology and our high power headlight kit for increased 80/100W output."

The US square headlights, are inferior to Euro spec lenses, in light pattern on the road.

I had originally done the relay and H3 bulb upgrade to my square lensed 86 Van... The light was not as impressive as that from a Hella Euro spec lens with H4 Low/hi beam, because the US light pattern is quite diffused.

The 7" round hella headlights with 80/100w H4 lamps, are FAR superior to the US spec square lenses even with relays and H3 80/100 lamps

Moral of the story, US spec lenses put a less useful light pattern on the road than the Euro spec lens.

I do NOT recommend upgrading to 400watts of high beams with US spec lenses. You will get better light with Euro spec lenses. You can get there with either the SA Grille, or even with the grille from an 85 Van, using single 7" Hella hi/low beam.

thats right
an 85 grille with 7" round Euro spec Hella's puts better light on the road, than square US lenses, even after relay and lamp upgrades.

Moral of the story, US lenses suck, Euro spec lenses RULE!

Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:04 am

Talk about lenses aside, as dazzling as that is, Jon, the original question was about the upgrade relay and bulb kits offerred by VC and GW. To clarify, my warning about amperage pertained to that setup.

Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:54 am

meyervw wrote: This seems like a really good deal and only $100 total. Anybody do this with theres? It would be for a square lights.

I did the relays first. It was better, but not great. I bought the 80/100 low beams from Van Cafe, and stuck with the stock high beams.

More than enough light, and cost about $40.

Got the relay's from
http://www.parts-express.com/webpage.cfm?FILTER=bo...bPage_ID=3

$50 seems a little excessive for $8 worth of parts and a printout of info that is freely available on the interwebs.

Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:05 am

Does anyone have relay wiring instructions from one of these kits they'd be willing to share?

Is it this simple?
http://www.eurekaboy.com/f250/relay101.htm

Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:11 am

tencentlife wrote:
> I definitely want to upgrade the lenses
> I'm fond of the SA grille arrangement.

Thanks for making me aware the SA Grille 310watt hi beam is safe with 30amp relays.

I did not like the 400w hi beam setup with US lenses when I tried it. So I do not recommend upgrading relays and bulbs without going to Euro lenses. The LENSES make the biggest difference.

Here is the order of least cost to get Euro lenses

1. Use relays and bulbs with a Saab square bucket and a Cibie Euro spec lens
2. Use relays and bulbs with 7" Hella Euro spec rounds mounted in the 85 grille
3. Use relays and bulbs with 7" Hella Euro spec rounds mounted in the SA grille

Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:30 am

PDXWesty wrote: Does anyone have relay wiring instructions from one of these kits they'd be willing to share?

Is it this simple?
http://www.eurekaboy.com/f250/relay101.htm

http://frankcondelli.com/hdltrela.htm

Cut white wire, place relay inbetween (one wire on switch and other on power out)
Cut yellow, repeat...
Connect relay to chassis power and ground.

Yep - it's that easy.

Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:46 am

Does this look like the correct relay?

http://www.amazon.com/VDC-Automotive-Relay-SPDT-40A/dp/B0002KR9GG

Looks like a DIY'er can get by pretty cheap. Thanks!

Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:57 am

meyervw wrote: This seems like a really good deal and only $100 total. Anybody do this with theres? It would be for a square lights.
I'm happy enough with mine...

I drive the valley highways from SF to the Sierra foothills and high country fairly often.
The 80 watt bulbs are an immense improvement over the stock.
The stock lights were like having two mag-lights taped to your bumper.

In the 2 yrs I've had the setup installed I don't think I've used the high beams more than a half-dozen times for extended periods.

The 80 watt lows are all I need at 55-65mph in most all conditions. The 4x100W highbeams are overkill. But its nice to have them for quick visual checks on curves and road changes. (interesting idea on keeping stock lamps in the small square high lamps = 320 watts total)

My eyes ARE getting older, however, and my night vision isn't what it once was. I might look into better low beam light at some point.. but for now the GW kit was money well spent.

Also worth noting.. I would concur with 10cent about 100x4... even when running only 80s (x2) I have some heat buildup in the light switch (was not there with the stock lamps). Switch may be near done... 20 yrs old.

(note to self.. buy new switch and put in parts drawer.. I bet that thing fails at the worst possible time.)

The H4 and SA setups are nice.. but for me, persoanlly, the relay brighter bulb kits are a good value for an immediate fix. 1-2 hrs and you're good to go.

Still want to further upgrade later? No worries... collect the parts necesary and do it in reasonable time.

Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:47 pm

What j_dirge said about old eyes and all. Here's a link to my install of the GoWesty kit:

http://picasaweb.google.com/bike2vcu/HeadlightUpgrade#

There may be cheaper and less invasive methods, but for a C note and a couple of hours labor this works great.

Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:00 pm

campism wrote: What j_dirge said about old eyes and all.
geez those photos against the garage door really tell the story, eh?

For new installs
I'd add that aiming the lights is essential.
I have my passeger side aimed a little higher and out at the shoulder. I was able to quite a bit higher with the new brighter bulb.
My drive side down a little and towards center.

Of course when I went to re-aim the lights, I discovered all the plastic bits had long since grown brittle and cracked. So it was another bunch of dollars for the adjusting screw kit. Van Cafe delivered with cookies.. 2 days.