TheSamba.com :: View topic

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:13 pm

Ok. I usually just do a lot of searching on here. It seems everyone has already gone over my issues. Anyway, I am removing my engine for the first time. I have having problems with the bolt behind the fan shroud on the right side or pass side. When I turn it from behind the fan shroud the bolt just keeps turning. I am confused as to where the bolt is on the other side. Does it go through the starter and if so how do I locate the bolt to get a vise grip on it to? This is my last bolt then comes the bolts on the rear hanger. I can't find the other end on the starter and then I took the little cap off the end of the starter I see no bolt. Any help is appreciated.

Other than that I have the tranny supported and all holes plugged. Ready to come out once I get this bolt or nut off.

She is getting a complete makeover. I have done most of the work myself. I will be sure to post some pics of the semi restoration. Paint Job New Cabinets Etc. She is completely stripped awaiting the booth.

Thanks Bill

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:30 pm

Is this a type 1 engine?

17mm wrench from inside the engne compartment if I recall correctly.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:31 pm

we call that the "BASTARD BOLT!"..and yes it should be going throw the top of your starter hole!....usually it locks itself into place as you crank in down!...i dont understand why yours is different!...early baywindow right? :?

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:31 pm

Randy in Maine wrote: Is this a type 1 engine?
I assume so since he has pictures of a 71 Bay in the gallery.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:32 pm

It is a type 1 dual carb setup.

This is from a previous post but I am having the exact same issue. "facing the engine feel around behind the shroud(passenger side). you should find a nut. the passenger side attached nut attaches to the simi moon bolt attaching as the top starter bolt. on the driver side you may find a round welded area instead of a nut. Just take the bolt out on the transmission side. good luck Very Happy

That's what I having problems with. When I turn the 17 mm nut from the inside it does not come off. I assume the bolt is turning. Do I have to get a hold of the simi moon so I can turn the nut loose fro m behind the fan shroud?

Thanks

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:35 pm

I am going to go try and turn it some more. Maybe I did not turn it far enough. I assumed it would just come off like you said. Is there a way to grab this little bugger so I can turn the bolt or should I try to tap it in so it catches?

Thanks, I will be back

Sun Nov 16, 2008 4:39 pm

use a ratcheting 17mm box wrench. If it still spins get someone under the bus to hold it.

This tool is specifically made to hold that bolt.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:04 pm

Go under the starter and push the bolt so it's flush with the starter there. It will stay in place so you can get the nut off from behind the fan shroud.

Also the Bentley says 71s don't have the upper one on the drivers side, some do and some don't. Besure and make sure that one is removed too.

It's usually not bad to get off - gettin it started is a bit trickier as you have to get it started while sort of pulling on the bold to keep it in place.

After you do this about 10 times it's cake.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:09 pm

visibleink wrote: Also the Bentley says 71s don't have the upper one on the drivers side, some do and some don't.
Not that I don't believe you but that can't be possible. Can you scan the page that says it and post it.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:40 pm

Glenn wrote: visibleink wrote: Also the Bentley says 71s don't have the upper one on the drivers side, some do and some don't.
Not that I don't believe you but that can't be possible. Can you scan the page that says it and post it.

My scanner shit the bed a long time ago, but I'm looking at my Bentley in my hand--Chapter 5, page 7, Section # 3 Removing and Installing Engine, step 4 reads:

"On 1968 through 1970 models, remove the two upper engine mounting bolts; on 1971 models there is only one bolt; on the right."

I didn't beleive it either, but there it is.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 7:41 pm

VDubTech wrote: Glenn wrote: visibleink wrote: Also the Bentley says 71s don't have the upper one on the drivers side, some do and some don't.
Not that I don't believe you but that can't be possible. Can you scan the page that says it and post it.

My scanner shit the bed a long time ago, but I'm looking at my Bentley in my hand--Chapter 5, page 7, Section # 3 Removing and Installing Engine, step 4 reads:

"On 1968 through 1970 models, remove the two upper engine mounting bolts; on 1971 models there is only one bolt; on the right."

I didn't beleive it either, but there it is.
I just learned something new.

I wonder why.

Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:04 pm

I got it. A newb mistake. It just took longer than I though to get the screw off. I could not tell without seeing it.

I think I may have found where the oil leak was coming from. When I was taking out the bolts and nuts that hold the engine to the tranny I noticed that the left (Driver Side) bolt behind the fan shroud was missing. Would this of caused an oil leak? Good news if so. How the heck did that come loose?

It did not take me all that long for my first time. There is really not that many steps. I am so proud of myself. My wife was all excited. I am hoping to put a new 1776 from Chico in it. I will post an update on how far along she is. I am doing all the work myself except the paint. Thanks for your help.

Any suggestions on what to do now that the engine is out?? Should the tranny be loose? I have it propped up, so I hope its ok. Any suggestions on what to do with it when I tow the bus to the paint shop? Can I hang some sort of chain to hold it?

Bill

Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:48 pm

Glenn wrote:
I wonder why.

I think it might be a printing technical error. Evidently early cases used a nut and bolt on the upper left. But all the late cases ('71 AE) that I've seen just use a bolt on the upper left and no nut. Because the cases have a hardened steel threaded insert which is integral with the case. A permanent "nut" on the engine side. But both my bug and Polly's bus didn't have the top left bolt when we got them. And I've heard others say so also. The asumption was that the prior installations were done by the typical slop shops that don't really care about their workmanship. A one hour slop job is bound to leave a lot of problems. And it's up out of view so who cares.

Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:07 am

bubbarobe wrote: I got it. A newb mistake. It just took longer than I though to get the screw off. I could not tell without seeing it.

I think I may have found where the oil leak was coming from. When I was taking out the bolts and nuts that hold the engine to the tranny I noticed that the left (Driver Side) bolt behind the fan shroud was missing. Would this of caused an oil leak? Good news if so. How the heck did that come loose?

It did not take me all that long for my first time. There is really not that many steps. I am so proud of myself. My wife was all excited. I am hoping to put a new 1776 from Chico in it. I will post an update on how far along she is. I am doing all the work myself except the paint. Thanks for your help.

Any suggestions on what to do now that the engine is out?? Should the tranny be loose? I have it propped up, so I hope its ok. Any suggestions on what to do with it when I tow the bus to the paint shop? Can I hang some sort of chain to hold it?

Bill

Your oil leak could not have been because of the missing bolt. The tranny hangs down normally when the engine is removed. Later model buses have "ears" on the top of the bell housing that support it but 1971's don't. Use anything like rope or chain to hold the tranny up for towing purposes.
1971 transmission

1972 transmission

Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:19 pm

Desertbusman wrote:
I wonder why.
I think it might be a printing technical error.

I don't think so. If it is we should have Ratwell add it to the known Bentley errors.

I think it was that way because of the dual port/doghouse. It makes it a bit tight to reach round the oil cooler.

You can still put one in though and I have before - there is room.

VDubTech wrote:
"On 1968 through 1970 models, remove the two upper engine mounting bolts; on 1971 models there is only one bolt; on the right."

I didn't beleive it either, but there it is.

Thanks for looking that up.

71s are so awesome that they only need three engine bolts.

Mon Nov 17, 2008 12:23 pm

bubbarobe wrote: I got it. A newb mistake. It just took longer than I though to get the screw off. I could not tell without seeing it.

I think I may have found where the oil leak was coming from. When I was taking out the bolts and nuts that hold the engine to the tranny I noticed that the left (Driver Side) bolt behind the fan shroud was missing. Would this of caused an oil leak? Good news if so. How the heck did that come loose?

It did not take me all that long for my first time. There is really not that many steps. I am so proud of myself. My wife was all excited. I am hoping to put a new 1776 from Chico in it. I will post an update on how far along she is. I am doing all the work myself except the paint. Thanks for your help.

Any suggestions on what to do now that the engine is out?? Should the tranny be loose? I have it propped up, so I hope its ok. Any suggestions on what to do with it when I tow the bus to the paint shop? Can I hang some sort of chain to hold it?

Bill

Remove the transmission and axles before you have it towed. It will tow fine without them and you don't have to worry about the support coming undone.

That leak is probably the seal behind the flywheel (main seal). Make sure it's engine oil and not gear oil from the transmission. If it's gear oil there's a little seal behind the shaft.

Chico is a great builder - I have a 1600 "torque master" he built and LOVE it.

Mon Nov 17, 2008 1:13 pm

I've owned two 1971 buses and they both had the drivers side upper bolt. It is different than earlier models in that it's just a bolt that is inserted from in front of the bell housing facing rearward and threads into a boss in the engine case. As you can see from the above pictures I sent, the hole for the bolt is there.

Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:08 pm

Thanks for all your help. Anyway, here is the spot on the bottom left side of tranny case that rubbed through. I thought this may have happened because that bolt was missing. But you all say 71s have 3 bolts. What would cause this? It even began rubbing on the other side. Should there have been oil in the case?It was pretty dry. Can I just spot weld that and move forward or do I need to replace the case? Here are a few pics. The engine ran strong just replacing for more power. There is a minor oil leak coming from the main seal. If you know anyone looking for an engine I am selling it for 800.00.

[/img]

Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:31 am

bubbarobe wrote: But you all say 71s have 3 bolts.

No, that's not what everyone has said. When you put it back together use 4.

What was rubbing that caused the wear in the tranny housing? Does it look like new and fresh wear? Was your flywheel still solidly attached to the crankshaft? Looks like the kind of damage that might occur if the flywheel gland nut failed.

Tue Nov 18, 2008 7:31 am

Desertbusman wrote: bubbarobe wrote: But you all say 71s have 3 bolts.

No, that's not what everyone has said. When you put it back together use 4.

What was rubbing that caused the wear in the tranny housing? Does it look like new and fresh wear? Was your flywheel still solidly attached to the crankshaft? Looks like the kind of damage that might occur if the flywheel gland nut failed.

Exactly, all the engines use four fasterners. The wear had to have been caused by a loose flywheel or else something with the clutch pack failing. A little rubbing from flywheel interference is pretty common but not putting a hole all the way through the bell housing. Maybe the oil leak is related to excessive end play (failed thrust bearing) and that destroyed the main oil seal?