TheSamba.com :: View topic - Cold weather carbs! Please help before it gets too cold!

Mon Nov 17, 2008 3:56 pm

I am a relatively new and proud owner of a '72 Westy, my 10th VW, my first bus! I intend to use it as an occasional driver during winter here in New England. I also have a '79 SB Conv. which I've had for 7 years, it has a '73 stock carb engine, I have also occasionally driven it in winter. I originally tried it w/o stock aircleaner assy and had carb freeze ups, it was impossible to get and keep running in <30 degree weather, I installed stock air cleaner with pre-heater tube etc., and the damn thing was ready to go at any temp., although I was a bit chilly. What am I in for with the bus, a 1700 with new non-choke dual Webbers and Empi intakes, so far it runs and heat is ok down to mid 30s. I recently bought a parts bus with single progressive Webber and a choke! Before it gets too cold to change it over, any advice on which may be better, or am I in for the same troubles I originally had with the Bug? Temp sometimes gets down to 0 degrees, and I really want to have the bus available as an alternative, to my company car (a Dodge Caravan, which is just a bit less fun to drive than a shopping cart). I can't possibly deprive the locals from craning their necks and smiling every time they see an old bus for a whole winter, can I?

Thanks for any help,

Rick Pell

Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:21 pm

It would seem that you may be wise to apply the lesson you learned with your bug to your bus. You can find the stock carbs (Solex PDSIT's) and air cleaner assemblies in the classifieds here and there is a dude on here that rebuilds 'em (username keifernet). Do you have all the proper preheat tin in place on the motor included the "tube" that pulls the heat off of the #1 cylinder?

Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:37 pm

Rickpell wrote: I am a relatively new and proud owner of a '72 Westy, my 10th VW, my first bus! I intend to use it as an occasional driver during winter here in New England. I also have a '79 SB Conv. which I've had for 7 years, it has a '73 stock carb engine, I have also occasionally driven it in winter. I originally tried it w/o stock aircleaner assy and had carb freeze ups, it was impossible to get and keep running in <30 degree weather, I installed stock air cleaner with pre-heater tube etc., and the damn thing was ready to go at any temp., although I was a bit chilly. What am I in for with the bus, a 1700 with new non-choke dual Webbers and Empi intakes, so far it runs and heat is ok down to mid 30s. I recently bought a parts bus with single progressive Webber and a choke! Before it gets too cold to change it over, any advice on which may be better, or am I in for the same troubles I originally had with the Bug? Temp sometimes gets down to 0 degrees, and I really want to have the bus available as an alternative, to my company car (a Dodge Caravan, which is just a bit less fun to drive than a shopping cart). I can't possibly deprive the locals from craning their necks and smiling every time they see an old bus for a whole winter, can I?

Thanks for any help,

Rick Pell

That company car is your company telling you to park your Bus until all the darned salt is off the roads. Would that we all felt the love like that from our employers.

Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:12 pm

The Weber progressive should start very nice, but won't do well after that. With the progressive you will have neither heated intake air or a heated manifold. On top of that you will have a carb that is hard to tune on a T4 engine at the best of times.

Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:24 pm

With a salt shortage I hear many 'burbs of chicago are going to use Sand and save the Salt when really needed. I'm eager to see if thats the case, cause I'll still drive mine then! First sign of salt and she'll be parked.

Tue Nov 18, 2008 4:53 pm

Sand followed by salt is a true killer. The sand does physical damage to the paint, maybe even removing it totally and then the salt attacked the metal full force.

Is General Motors so broke these days that they can not pay for salt to ruin our cars?

Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:46 am

Rickpell wrote: I can't possibly deprive the locals from craning their necks and smiling every time they see an old bus for a whole winter, can I?
Yes you can. Screw the locals!! There not going to pay for all the body work you're going to need come spring time after driving it through a New England winter. Keep your bay alive and park it until a good April shower washes the roads of all that nasty, German metal eating salt!!!! In the mean time take your time getting all the right parts together for your air cleaner/carb and come spring time you'll have that much more time to drive it and enjoy it rather then cutting and replacing all the rust on it!!

Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:37 pm

I don't intend to use it in snow or bad conditions, I'll use the dreaded Caravan. But just an occasional cruise to keep me f*ckengroovin'. Last night, low 30's and it fired right up and ran very well when warmed up, not much more than 6-7 minutes and driving like usual. Really doesn't seem to have the same trouble keeping running as I had with the Beetle? I'm sure that once the snow flies and temps get steadily below freezing, it will have to be parked, at least until roads are clean. I'm in RI, we do get lots of rain here in winter too, most times the snow only lasts a few days, then it gets washed away by a cold bone chilling rain. I promise not to expose it to salt, I already have a few small areas to replace sheet metal and am not looking for more work.

OK, I might have a better use for the progressive Weber. The Beetle!
Should bolt right up right? 1600 AE code engine. Same intakes?

Thu Nov 20, 2008 2:34 pm

Ive use both a progressive and a pair of IDFs in my 72. The IDFs work better in all weather conditions even without a choke or their enrichment circuit operating.

The 72s have a round heat supply port located at the front right corner of the motor that supplies warm air to the stock manifold. When i was using the progressive and needed heat to kep it from icing up I found that a 2 inch pvc female-to-female pipe coupler fit perfectly into the heating port allowing me to attach a type 1 heat tube to it and dirct warm air to the carb. I haven't had to use such a set up since switching to the IDFs but I'm not driving in the cold of winter like I use to.

Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:51 am

Oil Phil-M wrote:
The 72s have a round heat supply port located at the front right corner of the motor that supplies warm air to the stock manifold.

That setup on the '72s is terrible. It just wraps around the exhaust! It simple sure, but far to inefficient. Now the '73+ had a better system with the port going into the air system circulating around the warm engine.

Maybe it was just because my '72 motor was tired and my '73 was nice and new :? ...

Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:53 am

First I've heard of that, all the 72s I've had or saw had the same setup as the 73-74s. Sure it wasn't some hack?

Fri Nov 21, 2008 8:41 pm

busdaddy wrote: First I've heard of that, all the 72s I've had or saw had the same setup as the 73-74s. Sure it wasn't some hack?

'72 was exactly the same as the '73 and '74, taking air from the #1 cylinder barrel.
Colin

Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:23 pm

Can the stock parts in picture be adapted to dual Weber setup?

Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:40 pm

No snow or salt yet, so I'm still driving!

Figured I'd update you guys on my adventures in less than 25 degree temps. So far it has gotten as low as 22 deg, start ups are good, a bit of pedal finesse is needed, but it starts and warms up relatively quickly. Driveability is excellent once sufficiently warmed, usually less than 10 mins. I'm definitely not disappointed. BUT! The damn heat sucks! I put a full length curtain at rear of cab area and that makes it tolerable for front passengers. The problem is that I sometimes need to carry people in the rear. Seems like the major draft might be the pop-up top, haven't had time to mess with that yet. Any ideas on a relatively easy supplement to heat. I'm considering a 110V invertor and putting a small household ceramic heater in. Is that a possibility? I have a 12V supplemental heater, but it is weak at best. Any good 12V heaters available?

Thanks again for ant help.

Rick P.

Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:51 pm

No electric heater can possibly heat a bus unless you plan on installing a large gas driven generator in the back to power it. There's plenty of heat threads here discussing all of your options, do some searching and reading.

72 buses have AWESOME heat, one of the best years ever as heat goes and very adequate. Look over your system for leaks and make sure the flapper valves are opening fully.

Tue Nov 25, 2008 6:45 pm

Search for Duncwarw's post on heat and go to his site and see what he has done.

Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:18 pm

Thanks guys, gonna get it on a lift this weekend to check the underside for any heat loss. Getting too cold too fast!

Rick