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Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:38 pm

rosevillain wrote: It was my understanding that a stock type 1 cam is a stock type 3 cam and will work for the F.I. Mine seems to run fine.

As far as the toleranced gears, when you assemble the bottom end, leave one case half off and rotate the crank, if the cam pops out of its bearings, then you grab a different tolerance.

My local shop sells rebuilt cams for $25.00 with exchange, perhaps yours will also. Watch out for new cams with aluminum rivits, I had one fail.

thanks rose- if the stock t1 cam is the same as the FI t3 cam, then I might even have two available to check out. as for the tolerance... is that really how you check it? is there a more... precise? way?

im wary of a rebuilt cam for the same reasons im wary of a reground crank-- if they get rebuilt/reground too many times then what's the point? but if one of the (possibly) two I have is still a virgin I wouldn't be averse to having it go into the engine. I just don't want a 3rd, 4th, 5th rebuilt in there, know what I mean?

Tue Jan 06, 2009 5:59 pm

Notice the new thread that I started? Take a look at that, then answer the question: what do you expect out of the engine? Then, you can better decide. ;-)

I know that you have a better breathing exhaust, so why not take advantage of it? You can go with a nice, new, cam, that will work with the F.I., as shown in the reference thread. What you have to watch is the duration, because of valve lap and vacuum signature. D-Jetronic can handle a Engle 100, maybe a 110. It does better with the Web-Cam 73, which has less duration. Trouble is, it is for Type 4 engines. But, there is a comparable cam called the 86, and is the most mild of the Type 1 "performance" cams. A bit of port and polishing, and the engine will be less restricted, and perform with more efficiency. Breathing easier, within reason, is actually better for engine longevity, according to a 45 year veteran mechanic.

On ratio rockers, Ray has said to be careful. If you want to risk it, go with the most mild, which I think is 1.25 to 1, versus 1.1 to 1 stock. When you do get it running, check your vacuum signature. The specifications are on here, in your M.P.S. thread.

Ray likes swivel feet (911) adjusters, saying that one gets a better adjustment. The best adjustment is very necessary for best running.

Oh, and if you want to be numbers matching, you can have your old case back.

Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:36 pm

architect_7 wrote: Notice the new thread that I started? Take a look at that, then answer the question: what do you expect out of the engine? Then, you can better decide. ;-)

I know that you have a better breathing exhaust, so why not take advantage of it? You can go with a nice, new, cam, that will work with the F.I., as shown in the reference thread. What you have to watch is the duration, because of valve lap and vacuum signature. D-Jetronic can handle a Engle 100, maybe a 110. It does better with the Web-Cam 73, which has less duration. Trouble is, it is for Type 4 engines. But, there is a comparable cam called the 86, and is the most mild of the Type 1 "performance" cams. A bit of port and polishing, and the engine will be less restricted, and perform with more efficiency. Breathing easier, within reason, is actually better for engine longevity, according to a 45 year veteran mechanic.

On ratio rockers, Ray has said to be careful. If you want to risk it, go with the most mild, which I think is 1.25 to 1, versus 1.1 to 1 stock. When you do get it running, check your vacuum signature. The specifications are on here, in your M.P.S. thread.

Ray likes swivel feet (911) adjusters, saying that one gets a better adjustment. The best adjustment is very necessary for best running.

Oh, and if you want to be numbers matching, you can have your old case back.

I thought the expectations were pretty clear... but it doesn't really matter since the cam discussion in there was too vague anyway. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel here- getting a non-stock cam is not something i really want to mess with. I'm not an engine builder by trade, and I don't know or care to experiment on what is essentially the soul of the engine. I'll leave that sort of thing to more adventurous people with deeper wallets.

the engle 100 seems to be the only legitimate candidate, but once again I run into the problem of not finding the specs I need to know-- namely what the actual lift duration and other specs are for a stock VW FI t3 cam, and whether those match the engle 100 specs that I have or match the stock 1600 T1 cam-- I still can't find the specs on the stock VW cams. In any case, if the cam that's coming out of the parts FI engine checks out then I'm not against using it, since Russ and George have both done it and their engines last a good long while.

also from the looks of it, the new cams dont have a large timing gear attached-- at least not in any of the pictures I've seen. So do I buy it separately? re-use the old one? anyone know?

I'm not going to mess with compression or the ratio rockers either. I just don't want to deal with too many question marks. I'll probably end up using the 911 style adjusters and the "soft zero" style pushrods to take some wear off the valve train though.

numbers matching? :lol: you gotta be kidding me Adriel..... since when has that bothered me? :wink: I think that extra case is ok, but if not I'll PM you.

Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:42 pm

I'd think your cam gear was prolly ok to run.

Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:46 pm

Mike Fisher wrote: I'd think your cam gear was prolly ok to run.

mike, do you mean the gear itself or the whole assembly lobes and all? Russ seems to think its on the way out...

My only concern about the gear was the chipped tooth and the noticeable damage to the brass timing gear on the crank. I suppose the damage to the brass could have happened when the tooth chipped and then it was fine after that but I don't really know. the chip is at the very edge of the gear as well, so maybe it won't affect things?

Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:33 pm

JSMskater wrote: architect_7 wrote: Notice the new thread that I started? Take a look at that, then answer the question: what do you expect out of the engine? Then, you can better decide. ;-)

I know that you have a better breathing exhaust, so why not take advantage of it? You can go with a nice, new, cam, that will work with the F.I., as shown in the reference thread. What you have to watch is the duration, because of valve lap and vacuum signature. D-Jetronic can handle a Engle 100, maybe a 110. It does better with the Web-Cam 73, which has less duration. Trouble is, it is for Type 4 engines. But, there is a comparable cam called the 86, and is the most mild of the Type 1 "performance" cams. A bit of port and polishing, and the engine will be less restricted, and perform with more efficiency. Breathing easier, within reason, is actually better for engine longevity, according to a 45 year veteran mechanic.

On ratio rockers, Ray has said to be careful. If you want to risk it, go with the most mild, which I think is 1.25 to 1, versus 1.1 to 1 stock. When you do get it running, check your vacuum signature. The specifications are on here, in your M.P.S. thread.

Ray likes swivel feet (911) adjusters, saying that one gets a better adjustment. The best adjustment is very necessary for best running.

Oh, and if you want to be numbers matching, you can have your old case back.

I thought the expectations were pretty clear... but it doesn't really matter since the cam discussion in there was too vague anyway. I'm not going to reinvent the wheel here- getting a non-stock cam is not something i really want to mess with. I'm not an engine builder by trade, and I don't know or care to experiment on what is essentially the soul of the engine. I'll leave that sort of thing to more adventurous people with deeper wallets.

the engle 100 seems to be the only legitimate candidate, but once again I run into the problem of not finding the specs I need to know-- namely what the actual lift duration and other specs are for a stock VW FI t3 cam, and whether those match the engle 100 specs that I have or match the stock 1600 T1 cam-- I still can't find the specs on the stock VW cams. In any case, if the cam that's coming out of the parts FI engine checks out then I'm not against using it, since Russ and George have both done it and their engines last a good long while.

also from the looks of it, the new cams dont have a large timing gear attached-- at least not in any of the pictures I've seen. So do I buy it separately? re-use the old one? anyone know?

I'm not going to mess with compression or the ratio rockers either. I just don't want to deal with too many question marks. I'll probably end up using the 911 style adjusters and the "soft zero" style pushrods to take some wear off the valve train though.

numbers matching? :lol: you gotta be kidding me Adriel..... since when has that bothered me? :wink: I think that extra case is ok, but if not I'll PM you.

You asked, and I answered. :wink: Knowing that you wanted new, reliability, and some performance, or thought, and the only new I knew was performance, thus the suggestion. Cams do not come with the gears, and I thought yours were damaged. Here they are: http://www.kustom1warehouse.net/category_s/178.htm.

Glad you are not going to mess with rockers. Sorry I misunderstood. Ray says the eight to one is the best of both worlds.

I was a bit upset that mine was not. Number matching autos are worth more, thus I was a bit disturbed to find out it was for yours. I got the case because I thought I could sell it. Now, it is more in the way than anything else. The engine tin is a tight second, with the A/C compressor a third. :wink: I did find a tub that I could put almost everything I am selling into. Now, I have my parts separate, and they only take two shelves.

If you are not sure of condition, by good German or reputable. Better safe than sorry! :wink:

Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:03 pm

Distributor drive gears are cheap, and I'd hate to be down because of a stripped one.

With that said, I wanged one up pretty good in a bug engine, and it has about 5000 miles on it.

I would think that a re-ground cam would be a non issue being that with swivel feet adjusters, you have to shim the rockers out anyway? A reputable shop shouldn't grind past acceptable tolerances.

I think that if you want your car to run like a new one, build it stock. A properly assembled, balanced stock engine can be almost magical. If you want more out of it, any mutherfukation will create tuning issues, cost more money than just the upfront costs, and will require tweeking and babysitting until it's right. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying.

Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:23 pm

rosevillain wrote: Distributor drive gears are cheap, and I'd hate to be down because of a stripped one.

With that said, I wanged one up pretty good in a bug engine, and it has about 5000 miles on it.

I would think that a re-ground cam would be a non issue being that with swivel feet adjusters, you have to shim the rockers out anyway? A reputable shop shouldn't grind past acceptable tolerances.

I think that if you want your car to run like a new one, build it stock. A properly assembled, balanced stock engine can be almost magical. If you want more out of it, any mutherfukation will create tuning issues, cost more money than just the upfront costs, and will require tweeking and babysitting until it's right. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying.

Now, there is a point! =D>

Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:34 pm

architect_7 wrote: rosevillain wrote: Distributor drive gears are cheap, and I'd hate to be down because of a stripped one.

With that said, I wanged one up pretty good in a bug engine, and it has about 5000 miles on it.

I would think that a re-ground cam would be a non issue being that with swivel feet adjusters, you have to shim the rockers out anyway? A reputable shop shouldn't grind past acceptable tolerances.

I think that if you want your car to run like a new one, build it stock. A properly assembled, balanced stock engine can be almost magical. If you want more out of it, any mutherfukation will create tuning issues, cost more money than just the upfront costs, and will require tweeking and babysitting until it's right. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying.

Now, there is a point! =D>

isn't that what we've all said one way or another for the last 15 posts :lol:

i never wanted a performance cam. or anything "performance"-- upping the displacement isn't really a "performance" mod IMO but thats been off the table for a while now anyway.

and I think we're getting all mixed up-- distributor drive gear is fine, but I'm probably going to buy a new one anyway. brass crank dist. drive gear was chewed up because of the Cam timing gear-- which is the one I'm talking about. the cam timing gear. the others are easy enough to find.

thanks Adriel for the link-- I hadn't found that part on the CB performance website. I guess now I just have to find out whether or not the engle 100 is the same as the stock VW cam.

so again: anyone know? is the engle 100 cam, with 276* duration and 236* at .050 with .383" of lift the same as the stock VW cam used on FI T3 engines?

Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:40 pm

JSMskater wrote: architect_7 wrote: rosevillain wrote: Distributor drive gears are cheap, and I'd hate to be down because of a stripped one.

With that said, I wanged one up pretty good in a bug engine, and it has about 5000 miles on it.

I would think that a re-ground cam would be a non issue being that with swivel feet adjusters, you have to shim the rockers out anyway? A reputable shop shouldn't grind past acceptable tolerances.

I think that if you want your car to run like a new one, build it stock. A properly assembled, balanced stock engine can be almost magical. If you want more out of it, any mutherfukation will create tuning issues, cost more money than just the upfront costs, and will require tweeking and babysitting until it's right. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying.

Now, there is a point! =D>

isn't that what we've all said one way or another for the last 15 posts :lol:

i never wanted a performance cam. or anything "performance"-- upping the displacement isn't really a "performance" mod IMO but thats been off the table for a while now anyway.

and I think we're getting all mixed up-- distributor drive gear is fine, but I'm probably going to buy a new one anyway. brass crank dist. drive gear was chewed up because of the Cam timing gear-- which is the one I'm talking about. the cam timing gear. the others are easy enough to find.

thanks Adriel for the link-- I hadn't found that part on the CB performance website. I guess now I just have to find out whether or not the engle 100 is the same as the stock VW cam.

so again: anyone know? is the engle 100 cam, with 276* duration and 236* at .050 with .383" of lift the same as the stock VW cam used on FI T3 engines?

You did not want performance! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: So then, why a 1776? :?

The Engle is NOT stock. Take a look at the cam I suggested, and the note at the far right: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:I7P2Z1Qrh-wJ:w...=firefox-a. The Engle is even further from the Web-Cam, which is not stock.

Oh, and no problem. I am glad I could finally help. I used that site because they would be the best place to get everything in one shebang, plus pay less shipping, if at all.

Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:05 pm

architect_7 wrote: JSMskater wrote: architect_7 wrote: rosevillain wrote: Distributor drive gears are cheap, and I'd hate to be down because of a stripped one.

With that said, I wanged one up pretty good in a bug engine, and it has about 5000 miles on it.

I would think that a re-ground cam would be a non issue being that with swivel feet adjusters, you have to shim the rockers out anyway? A reputable shop shouldn't grind past acceptable tolerances.

I think that if you want your car to run like a new one, build it stock. A properly assembled, balanced stock engine can be almost magical. If you want more out of it, any mutherfukation will create tuning issues, cost more money than just the upfront costs, and will require tweeking and babysitting until it's right. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying.

Now, there is a point! =D>

isn't that what we've all said one way or another for the last 15 posts :lol:

i never wanted a performance cam. or anything "performance"-- upping the displacement isn't really a "performance" mod IMO but thats been off the table for a while now anyway.

and I think we're getting all mixed up-- distributor drive gear is fine, but I'm probably going to buy a new one anyway. brass crank dist. drive gear was chewed up because of the Cam timing gear-- which is the one I'm talking about. the cam timing gear. the others are easy enough to find.

thanks Adriel for the link-- I hadn't found that part on the CB performance website. I guess now I just have to find out whether or not the engle 100 is the same as the stock VW cam.

so again: anyone know? is the engle 100 cam, with 276* duration and 236* at .050 with .383" of lift the same as the stock VW cam used on FI T3 engines?

You did not want performance! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: So then, why a 1776? :?

The Engle is NOT stock. Take a look at the cam I suggested, and the note at the far right: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:I7P2Z1Qrh-wJ:w...=firefox-a. The Engle is even further from the Web-Cam, which is not stock.

Oh, and no problem. I am glad I could finally help. I used that site because they would be the best place to get everything in one shebang, plus pay less shipping, if at all.

:roll: :roll: yeah. a 1776 is a real screamer of a performance engine. See, your idea of "performance" is anything non stock. Did I not say, multiple times, that a 1776 is NOT for performance, and I don't consider it a "performance" upgrade? a bump in displacement of that size wouldn't create anything close to real performance. I never asked for a non stock cam-- hence why i was checking mine to see if it was ok.

anyway this is getting completely off topic. reliability. longevity. I've said it multiple times.

MOVING ON.

I'm going to post the cam question in the engine forum, since no one seems to know here.

Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:19 pm

Muir's words on the cam:
"If you need a new camshaft or camshaft gear, here's a little trip we'll lay on you. When they bore out the VW cracnkcases in Hanover, they aren't exactly alike, so they used several minutely different camshaft gears to take up the play between the crankshaft gear and the camshaft gear. Each of these gears is marked on the back from +7 to -7. If there's no number, it's a zero gear. The point is--if you are replacing your camshaft gear or any other thumbdiddy you might be working with camshafts, it must match your crank and case. If it doesn't, your engine will continually sound as if it were running in mush or worse, as if it were just about to throw a rod or as if it had thrown a rod... just thought we'd let you know..."

Tue Jan 06, 2009 11:44 pm

KTPhil wrote: Muir's words on the cam:
"If you need a new camshaft or camshaft gear, here's a little trip we'll lay on you. When they bore out the VW cracnkcases in Hanover, they aren't exactly alike, so they used several minutely different camshaft gears to take up the play between the crankshaft gear and the camshaft gear. Each of these gears is marked on the back from +7 to -7. If there's no number, it's a zero gear. The point is--if you are replacing your camshaft gear or any other thumbdiddy you might be working with camshafts, it must match your crank and case. If it doesn't, your engine will continually sound as if it were running in mush or worse, as if it were just about to throw a rod or as if it had thrown a rod... just thought we'd let you know..."

the question is-- if I replace both, the cam and the gear, with an aftermarket I wouldn't have to worry about this correct?

the cam im holding right now, the cam is bad, and the gear looks so as well. I don't see any markings beyond the part number and the "PU" so I assume its a "zero" gear.

I guess I'll have to inspect the other stock one when I get my hands on it... thanks phil.

Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:31 am

Ok, wow...lots of misinformation here. First, the Engle 100 is absolutely, positively not the same as a stock grind cam. Second, I have been building fuel inj longblocks for 40 years and have never installed a "fuel inj grind" cam in any of them. The standard type 1 stock cam works perfect. Third, no one has mentioned yet that a major reason for failure in fuel inj aircooled engines is 1)bad head temp sensor 2)bad injectors 3) vacuum leaks. I tell any customer that buys a fuel inj longblock from me that there is ZERO warranty unless 4 new inj and a new head temp sensor are purchased and installed. I have seen multiple customers ruin new engines in under 100 miles from not doing this. So, go with your gut, stay stock, tune it right and don't worry about a thing.

Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:53 am

roy@mofoco.com wrote: Ok, wow...lots of misinformation here. First, the Engle 100 is absolutely, positively not the same as a stock grind cam. Second, I have been building fuel inj longblocks for 40 years and have never installed a "fuel inj grind" cam in any of them. The standard type 1 stock cam works perfect. Third, no one has mentioned yet that a major reason for failure in fuel inj aircooled engines is 1)bad head temp sensor 2)bad injectors 3) vacuum leaks. I tell any customer that buys a fuel inj longblock from me that there is ZERO warranty unless 4 new inj and a new head temp sensor are purchased and installed. I have seen multiple customers ruin new engines in under 100 miles from not doing this. So, go with your gut, stay stock, tune it right and don't worry about a thing.

I do not seem to have any problems with reusing the old injectors, and head temperature sensors. I have 2 FI with rebuilt engines running right now. One made a 1500 mile trip this summer in 90* heat, and got an average of 34 mpg, and used no oil.
I have been building VW engines since 1964.
BTW, do you make them use new intake runner gaskets between the head and the runners?? That is the biggest mistake I find on T-3 FI rebuilds. People try to use the metal gaskets that come in the gasket sets. WRONG!

Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:28 am

JSMskater wrote: architect_7 wrote: JSMskater wrote: architect_7 wrote: rosevillain wrote: Distributor drive gears are cheap, and I'd hate to be down because of a stripped one.

With that said, I wanged one up pretty good in a bug engine, and it has about 5000 miles on it.

I would think that a re-ground cam would be a non issue being that with swivel feet adjusters, you have to shim the rockers out anyway? A reputable shop shouldn't grind past acceptable tolerances.

I think that if you want your car to run like a new one, build it stock. A properly assembled, balanced stock engine can be almost magical. If you want more out of it, any mutherfukation will create tuning issues, cost more money than just the upfront costs, and will require tweeking and babysitting until it's right. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying.

Now, there is a point! =D>

isn't that what we've all said one way or another for the last 15 posts :lol:

i never wanted a performance cam. or anything "performance"-- upping the displacement isn't really a "performance" mod IMO but thats been off the table for a while now anyway.

and I think we're getting all mixed up-- distributor drive gear is fine, but I'm probably going to buy a new one anyway. brass crank dist. drive gear was chewed up because of the Cam timing gear-- which is the one I'm talking about. the cam timing gear. the others are easy enough to find.

thanks Adriel for the link-- I hadn't found that part on the CB performance website. I guess now I just have to find out whether or not the engle 100 is the same as the stock VW cam.

so again: anyone know? is the engle 100 cam, with 276* duration and 236* at .050 with .383" of lift the same as the stock VW cam used on FI T3 engines?

You did not want performance! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: So then, why a 1776? :?

The Engle is NOT stock. Take a look at the cam I suggested, and the note at the far right: http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:I7P2Z1Qrh-wJ:w...=firefox-a. The Engle is even further from the Web-Cam, which is not stock.

Oh, and no problem. I am glad I could finally help. I used that site because they would be the best place to get everything in one shebang, plus pay less shipping, if at all.

:roll: :roll: yeah. a 1776 is a real screamer of a performance engine. See, your idea of "performance" is anything non stock. Did I not say, multiple times, that a 1776 is NOT for performance, and I don't consider it a "performance" upgrade? a bump in displacement of that size wouldn't create anything close to real performance. I never asked for a non stock cam-- hence why i was checking mine to see if it was ok.

anyway this is getting completely off topic. reliability. longevity. I've said it multiple times.

MOVING ON.

I'm going to post the cam question in the engine forum, since no one seems to know here.

I am going to try and help you out, even though I should not. I will post it for the others that care. Performance can be a deviation from stock, but it can also be stock, with enhancements. For instance, the adjusters. They are stock, but with an enhanced but stock to the 911, adjusters.

Oh, anything above 40 pounds per a horsepower is powerful. Do the math, and see what I mean. :wink:

If you need to see where the markings are, I have two sets that do have markings. But, I think you have the information you need.

One last thing to debunk: you can have reliability and longevity with some performance, look at the upper end stock autos; Type 3 and Type 4 (though the latter I have not done the calculations). The trick is doing what others have done, unless one puts in the time.

Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:56 pm

Russ Wolfe wrote: roy@mofoco.com wrote: Ok, wow...lots of misinformation here. First, the Engle 100 is absolutely, positively not the same as a stock grind cam. Second, I have been building fuel inj longblocks for 40 years and have never installed a "fuel inj grind" cam in any of them. The standard type 1 stock cam works perfect. Third, no one has mentioned yet that a major reason for failure in fuel inj aircooled engines is 1)bad head temp sensor 2)bad injectors 3) vacuum leaks. I tell any customer that buys a fuel inj longblock from me that there is ZERO warranty unless 4 new inj and a new head temp sensor are purchased and installed. I have seen multiple customers ruin new engines in under 100 miles from not doing this. So, go with your gut, stay stock, tune it right and don't worry about a thing.

I do not seem to have any problems with reusing the old injectors, and head temperature sensors. I have 2 FI with rebuilt engines running right now. One made a 1500 mile trip this summer in 90* heat, and got an average of 34 mpg, and used no oil.
I have been building VW engines since 1964.
BTW, do you make them use new intake runner gaskets between the head and the runners?? That is the biggest mistake I find on T-3 FI rebuilds. People try to use the metal gaskets that come in the gasket sets. WRONG!

Oh yeah, I have no problem using old parts that still work but most people don't even know how to test and make sure the injectors are working properly. Yes, I forgot to mention, I also require people to buy the new FI intake gaskets. I wish they would stop making and sending out those metal ones....

Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:00 pm

roy@mofoco.com wrote: Russ Wolfe wrote: roy@mofoco.com wrote: Ok, wow...lots of misinformation here. First, the Engle 100 is absolutely, positively not the same as a stock grind cam. Second, I have been building fuel inj longblocks for 40 years and have never installed a "fuel inj grind" cam in any of them. The standard type 1 stock cam works perfect. Third, no one has mentioned yet that a major reason for failure in fuel inj aircooled engines is 1)bad head temp sensor 2)bad injectors 3) vacuum leaks. I tell any customer that buys a fuel inj longblock from me that there is ZERO warranty unless 4 new inj and a new head temp sensor are purchased and installed. I have seen multiple customers ruin new engines in under 100 miles from not doing this. So, go with your gut, stay stock, tune it right and don't worry about a thing.

I do not seem to have any problems with reusing the old injectors, and head temperature sensors. I have 2 FI with rebuilt engines running right now. One made a 1500 mile trip this summer in 90* heat, and got an average of 34 mpg, and used no oil.
I have been building VW engines since 1964.
BTW, do you make them use new intake runner gaskets between the head and the runners?? That is the biggest mistake I find on T-3 FI rebuilds. People try to use the metal gaskets that come in the gasket sets. WRONG!

Oh yeah, I have no problem using old parts that still work but most people don't even know how to test and make sure the injectors are working properly. Yes, I forgot to mention, I also require people to buy the new FI intake gaskets. I wish they would stop making and sending out those metal ones....

Ok. so the consensus is that there is no such thing as a T3 specific FI cam-- it is just a stock 1600 t1 cam. Yes? Russ?

Wed Jan 07, 2009 4:06 pm

JSMskater wrote: roy@mofoco.com wrote: Russ Wolfe wrote: roy@mofoco.com wrote: Ok, wow...lots of misinformation here. First, the Engle 100 is absolutely, positively not the same as a stock grind cam. Second, I have been building fuel inj longblocks for 40 years and have never installed a "fuel inj grind" cam in any of them. The standard type 1 stock cam works perfect. Third, no one has mentioned yet that a major reason for failure in fuel inj aircooled engines is 1)bad head temp sensor 2)bad injectors 3) vacuum leaks. I tell any customer that buys a fuel inj longblock from me that there is ZERO warranty unless 4 new inj and a new head temp sensor are purchased and installed. I have seen multiple customers ruin new engines in under 100 miles from not doing this. So, go with your gut, stay stock, tune it right and don't worry about a thing.

I do not seem to have any problems with reusing the old injectors, and head temperature sensors. I have 2 FI with rebuilt engines running right now. One made a 1500 mile trip this summer in 90* heat, and got an average of 34 mpg, and used no oil.
I have been building VW engines since 1964.
BTW, do you make them use new intake runner gaskets between the head and the runners?? That is the biggest mistake I find on T-3 FI rebuilds. People try to use the metal gaskets that come in the gasket sets. WRONG!

Oh yeah, I have no problem using old parts that still work but most people don't even know how to test and make sure the injectors are working properly. Yes, I forgot to mention, I also require people to buy the new FI intake gaskets. I wish they would stop making and sending out those metal ones....

Ok. so the consensus is that there is no such thing as a T3 specific FI cam-- it is just a stock 1600 t1 cam. Yes? Russ?

As far as I recall, it's just a stock VW cam. Universal longblocks can be used in any application: Types 1, 2 (up to 1972) and three, including FI. Where you run into issues is with a "performance" cam. THIS will change the "vacuum signature" drastically.

Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:03 pm

Bear in mind....I have been working on mostly type 4 D-jet for longer than I have type 3 D-jet. the systems are the same. The problems are the same. But I do not know all the specifics of the type 3 cams. They have the same exact issues as all D-ejt..that being that intake valve timing is THE most critical feature that you must keep on any non stock cam...to make itwork well with D-jet without huge changes.

The type 3 FI cam may very well be the same as a basic type 1 cam. The difference in timing is set in the distributor by the trigger point cam. If that is set for a basic type 1 cam...then you are good to go.

It would make sense since this is one of the reasons why......asisd from all other similarities in distributors....that a type 3 dizzy does not drop into a type 4. The injection timing cam for the triggers is quite a bit different.

The cams in type 4's were set up for D-jet. A D-jet cam runs fine with a carb. The type 4 used the same cam...optimixed in timing of fuel injection....in all of the type 4's from 411,412 to 914...except for a Euro performance grind that was for fuel inejected Euro 2 liter 914 of a couple years. There were some carb dedicated bus cams later on.....but in gneral....it was just as easy to use teh FI camin carbs since it did not know the difference.

But what is clear...is that if you take a cam that is aftermarket and designed for carbs and put it into a a type 4....you wull be lucky to run at all. A great may rebuilt engines in busses died early deaths this way because many people in teh 70's and 80's assumed that the type 4 was a bus engine and slapped in a bus cam. The typoe 4 was not a bus engine. The original type 4 came out in the 411in 68...with the V series cam grind that worke d jus tOK with FI...buit was set up for twin carbs. This grind...with its FI acceptable valve timing... is what web #73 is set up to. VW changed to the late grind in about 69. A few more degrees of duration and a slight change in lobe center.

D-jet is set up specific to the lobe center, valve overlap and intake valve timing. Not saying that you cannot use a different cam....just that if the intake valve timing gets too far from design.....its very hard to tune. Ray