TheSamba.com :: View topic

Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:32 pm

Deck height should be OK. Everything I have learned, it should be about .50" and you are close to that.
One thing I don't know if it has been mentioned. How is the rubber damper in your fan?
I noticed when you were turning it over, that it has some run out, but the could be that it is not on all the way.

Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:38 pm

Russ Wolfe wrote: Deck height should be OK. Everything I have learned, it should be about .50" and you are close to that.
One thing I don't know if it has been mentioned. How is the rubber damper in your fan?
I noticed when you were turning it over, that it has some run out, but the could be that it is not on all the way.

yeah it was hardly on at all, but I'll be sure to watch it just in case. I may end up not using that fan at all -- it's not the one I had originally on the engine (the old old engine) but this one LOOKED in better shape and so I used it when I rebuilt it the first time. I think this time I'm going to go back to the known good one even if it looks a little more tired.

something occurred to me while I was mulling things over last night. Some people thought the noise sounded like an exhaust leak-- has anyone ever heard of that noise happening internally on a heater box? I didn't use my old heater boxes and used a spare set I had, which looked in much better shape than my old ones. But I'm beginning to wonder since I still haven't found the smoking gun so to speak.

Russ, judging from the videos, you think I'm doin alright? should I backtrack on anything? I'm taking a break for dinner and I plan on pulling another late night so tomorrow I can just wheel the motor out in the morning and put it in. [-o<

Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:44 pm

Everything looks good so far.

Mon Feb 15, 2010 6:58 pm

Russ Wolfe wrote: Deck height should be OK. Everything I have learned, it should be about .50" and you are close to that.
One thing I don't know if it has been mentioned. How is the rubber damper in your fan?
I noticed when you were turning it over, that it has some run out, but the could be that it is not on all the way.

Is that with the case at 200mm? Without shims, I am .88". Is that a problem? With .03 shims I.I.R.C., and 45cc heads, I have a compression ratio of 7.95:1. I wanted it on the high side, between 7.9 and 8, and I think I have it! :wink: :lol:

Joe, keep moving, and as P.A. said, not to be anal. Going out now to balance the pistons, and maybe install the pistons in the cylinders. The engine will be .1 of a gram, which is the limit of the scale and wrist pins.

Tue Feb 16, 2010 2:41 pm

JSMskater wrote: Russ Wolfe wrote:
One thing I don't know if it has been mentioned. How is the rubber damper in your fan?
I noticed when you were turning it over, that it has some run out, but the could be that it is not on all the way.

yeah it was hardly on at all, but I'll be sure to watch it just in case. I may end up not using that fan at all -- it's not the one I had originally on the engine (the old old engine) but this one LOOKED in better shape and so I used it when I rebuilt it the first time. I think this time I'm going to go back to the known good one even if it looks a little more tired.

something occurred to me while I was mulling things over last night. Some people thought the noise sounded like an exhaust leak-- has anyone ever heard of that noise happening internally on a heater box? I didn't use my old heater boxes and used a spare set I had, which looked in much better shape than my old ones. But I'm beginning to wonder since I still haven't found the smoking gun so to speak. [-o<

Yeah, at this point, I'd use ALL the parts that you know are good, even if they don't look the best. Later on, if you want better looking pieces, you can swap them. Like you said, no real smoking gun yet, so it might be better to play it safe. Everything so far looks good though.

Tue Feb 16, 2010 10:18 pm

Well, since Joe is in no shape to update I will (Should have seen the wreck!). He called me, and I drove up and arrived about 1:30 and got a lot done until we could not find the clutch tool. Left about 3:30 and drove back to my area, got the tool and a bite to eat. Got back about 4:30 and got the engine out to the Squareback. Spent from about 5:00 to 7:00 trying to get it mated together, but just would not. Joe needed to leave by 7:00, so I got the house mostly set, and helped get it put away. At least it is ready for his Father to put in, and he will not be late for class. I think any time I have to drop an I.R.S. engine, going to do the whole drive line, like I did this time. What a royal pain and he is an expert!

Wed Feb 17, 2010 3:49 am

Adriel Rowley wrote: Well, since Joe is in no shape to update I will (Should have seen the wreck!). He called me, and I drove up and arrived about 1:30 and got a lot done until we could not find the clutch tool. Left about 3:30 and drove back to my area, got the tool and a bite to eat. Got back about 4:30 and got the engine out to the Squareback. Spent from about 5:00 to 7:00 trying to get it mated together, but just would not. Joe needed to leave by 7:00, so I got the house mostly set, and helped get it put away. At least it is ready for his Father to put in, and he will not be late for class. I think any time I have to drop an I.R.S. engine, going to do the whole drive line, like I did this time. What a royal pain and he is an expert!

its 245 am and I just arrived back in SLO. :sleeping: I'm completely wiped.

Thanks Adriel for all the help today 8)

as he said, we spent a RIDICULOUS amount of time trying to get the engine and transmission mated. For whatever reason, it just REFUSED to go in, and I've probably dropped and installed that engine close to 20 times since I've owned it. I'm going to chalk it up to it being dark, working too quickly, and running on less than 6 hours of sleep out of the last 48. :roll: ](*,)

just pissed I got allllll the way up to running it after a marathon 3 day build and then I get buttfucked in the home stretch :evil: oh well. spring break at the end of march! [-o<

Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:49 am

Sorry to hear Joe, but I guess it's something to look forward to on your break. Thanks for the videos, it'll help me when I start putting mine back together this weekend. (Gotta finish painting everything tonight and tomorrow).

Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:18 am

Tram wrote: TommyBoyGomes wrote: Tram wrote:

Castrol Super Clean + Powerwasher+ blowing out all the oil passages + inside the case with compressed air. After assembly of the pistond and cylinders, I'll usually paint the case with Wuerth Silver Lacquer Alloy paint (after masking opening, etc.) No, I've never had a problem with it burning off, and it looks great.

Hey Guys,

I've been reading through this thread as I'm about to go through the building process myself. There's alot of good info here, thanks for that. Not to hijack the thread or anything Joe, but I have a question about the above post from Tram. I wasn't planning on painting my case, but mine just looks downright ugly (even after it'd been "cleaned up" by the machine shop). I noticed Tram's note saying that he paints his cases with the Wurth Silver Lacquer Alloy paint. Did the below engine get painted with that paint?

If so, I'd really like my engine to look like that. So, a couple questions for Tram...

1. Did you have to "bake" the case after you painted it with the Wurth stuff?
2. Should I expect the engine to run significantly hotter?
3. Is this the stuff you use? http://www.autogeek.net/wurth-silver-paint.html or did you use this as the first coat and the Wurth High Gloss Lacquer Spray as the second coat?

Thanks for the info. Joe, did you ever get your knocking sound sorted out? Vielen Dank!

-T

1. No
2. No
3. Yes

Hope this helps! :D

(Sorry to hijack things temporarily again, but I figured the previous portion of my question is in this thread)...

So after ordering the Wurth "Silver Laquer Paint" and waiting for a week for it to arrive, I open the box to find Wurth "Silver Wheel Paint." This might just be a semantic thing, but the notice on the back says that it's an "Acrlic Lacquer." Am I still cool with painting my case (lightly) with this? It seems to be the same type of paint, but the label is different from what I ordered. Can I proceed with painting tomorrow night with confidence or do I need to return it? Thanks Tram (and others)!

(sorry Joe, back to your thread)

Thu Feb 18, 2010 12:50 am

TommyBoyGomes wrote: Tram wrote: TommyBoyGomes wrote: Tram wrote:

Castrol Super Clean + Powerwasher+ blowing out all the oil passages + inside the case with compressed air. After assembly of the pistond and cylinders, I'll usually paint the case with Wuerth Silver Lacquer Alloy paint (after masking opening, etc.) No, I've never had a problem with it burning off, and it looks great.

Hey Guys,

I've been reading through this thread as I'm about to go through the building process myself. There's alot of good info here, thanks for that. Not to hijack the thread or anything Joe, but I have a question about the above post from Tram. I wasn't planning on painting my case, but mine just looks downright ugly (even after it'd been "cleaned up" by the machine shop). I noticed Tram's note saying that he paints his cases with the Wurth Silver Lacquer Alloy paint. Did the below engine get painted with that paint?

If so, I'd really like my engine to look like that. So, a couple questions for Tram...

1. Did you have to "bake" the case after you painted it with the Wurth stuff?
2. Should I expect the engine to run significantly hotter?
3. Is this the stuff you use? http://www.autogeek.net/wurth-silver-paint.html or did you use this as the first coat and the Wurth High Gloss Lacquer Spray as the second coat?

Thanks for the info. Joe, did you ever get your knocking sound sorted out? Vielen Dank!

-T

1. No
2. No
3. Yes

Hope this helps! :D

(Sorry to hijack things temporarily again, but I figured the previous portion of my question is in this thread)...

So after ordering the Wurth "Silver Laquer Paint" and waiting for a week for it to arrive, I open the box to find Wurth "Silver Wheel Paint." This might just be a semantic thing, but the notice on the back says that it's an "Acrlic Lacquer." Am I still cool with painting my case (lightly) with this? It seems to be the same type of paint, but the label is different from what I ordered. Can I proceed with painting tomorrow night with confidence or do I need to return it? Thanks Tram (and others)!

(sorry Joe, back to your thread)

Sounds like a repackage of the same stuff. Should be OK.

Thu Feb 18, 2010 1:40 pm

Thanks bud, sprayin it tonight.

Mon Mar 22, 2010 7:38 pm

JSMskater wrote: Bobnotch wrote: JSMskater wrote:
ok, so as far as the crank and cam are concerned, they're in correctly, but I should re-index the dist. drive gear so that when no. 1 is fully extended the dist. points to the notch, which is 90 deg. before the timing dots align, right guys?!

thanks again for all the help :D :D :D :D :D

Yup, distributor drive needs to be re-indexed.

No problem on the help. 8) This part of the engine assembly is the most time consuming.

By the way, this is the hardest part of doing the engine rebuild. Once you've got the case closed up, and the crank spins easily with no rough spots, you've got it made. Everything that comes after it will be a piece of cake. :D
I think you spoke too soon :cry:

once i got the case all buttoned up, i turned the crank. smooth as silk, no hang ups, nothin.

put the flywheel on, and whammo frozen stiff and solid. it won't turn at all.

shhhiiiiizzaaa. I put the three shims where they belong, and I was doing this to check the end play, but no go. Ideas?

ok edit* i pulled the flywheel off, and the crank turns smoothly again no problemo. if i push the crank either from the front or back, it moves in and out 2.2mm, measured with my calipers. I think maybe I used too thick of spacers and so it was too tight and bound up? is that possible?

another edit:

ok, so BEFORE I put the other case half on, I could rotate the crank by pulling/pushing on the connecting rods. now that the other case half is on, I can no longer do this. If I try to, it acts like its frozen. If I stick the flywheel on the dowels (no gland nut) and rotate it, it turns with just slightly more resistance than when I was doing it with the rods and the case half off -- but still very smooth and with little effort.

Is this normal? and if it is, then I'm still stumped with this flywheel. I measured how thick the three shims are, and they/re 1.01mm, and so I don't think they could possibly be too thick, if anything they're not thick enough...

I don't really know what to do.

Hey Joe,

When you were messing with the flywheel shim spacing, had you torqued the case down without permatex just to test the endplay before truly sealing it? Or did you permatex it every time? I'm about to put on the second case half myself to test the flywheel endplay, but wanted to know if it's wise to torque it dry so that I don't have to wrestle the case halves apart (if necessary) with permatex fighting me. Thanks!

-T

Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:47 pm

TommyBoyGomes wrote: JSMskater wrote: Bobnotch wrote: JSMskater wrote:
ok, so as far as the crank and cam are concerned, they're in correctly, but I should re-index the dist. drive gear so that when no. 1 is fully extended the dist. points to the notch, which is 90 deg. before the timing dots align, right guys?!

thanks again for all the help :D :D :D :D :D

Yup, distributor drive needs to be re-indexed.

No problem on the help. 8) This part of the engine assembly is the most time consuming.

By the way, this is the hardest part of doing the engine rebuild. Once you've got the case closed up, and the crank spins easily with no rough spots, you've got it made. Everything that comes after it will be a piece of cake. :D
I think you spoke too soon :cry:

once i got the case all buttoned up, i turned the crank. smooth as silk, no hang ups, nothin.

put the flywheel on, and whammo frozen stiff and solid. it won't turn at all.

shhhiiiiizzaaa. I put the three shims where they belong, and I was doing this to check the end play, but no go. Ideas?

ok edit* i pulled the flywheel off, and the crank turns smoothly again no problemo. if i push the crank either from the front or back, it moves in and out 2.2mm, measured with my calipers. I think maybe I used too thick of spacers and so it was too tight and bound up? is that possible?

another edit:

ok, so BEFORE I put the other case half on, I could rotate the crank by pulling/pushing on the connecting rods. now that the other case half is on, I can no longer do this. If I try to, it acts like its frozen. If I stick the flywheel on the dowels (no gland nut) and rotate it, it turns with just slightly more resistance than when I was doing it with the rods and the case half off -- but still very smooth and with little effort.

Is this normal? and if it is, then I'm still stumped with this flywheel. I measured how thick the three shims are, and they/re 1.01mm, and so I don't think they could possibly be too thick, if anything they're not thick enough...

I don't really know what to do.

Hey Joe,

When you were messing with the flywheel shim spacing, had you torqued the case down without permatex just to test the endplay before truly sealing it? Or did you permatex it every time? I'm about to put on the second case half myself to test the flywheel endplay, but wanted to know if it's wise to torque it dry so that I don't have to wrestle the case halves apart (if necessary) with permatex fighting me. Thanks!

-T

It is axial clearance, so should not matter.

Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:40 pm

There are 2 ways to set the end play.
First and easiest for a person that does not have dial indicators, is to do it on the bench with the flywheel, the #1 main and the crankshaft. Put everything together with 2 or the 3 shims in place, and measure the gap with feeler gages.
From that measurement, calculate the thickness of the 3rd shim.

If you have a dial indicator, you can do it with the case together. You will not have to take it back apart, so go ahead and permatex it.
Put 2 of the shims in, like before, put the flywheel on, and tighten it. It does not need to be the 250 ft lbs, just good and tight. Measure end play with those 2 shims, and calculate what you need for the 3rd shim.

Sometimes you will need to adjust the other 2 shims to get everything to work out.
I had to do that the other day on a 2.0L bus engine The original 3 shims that came out, were .35mm. By the time I got done, I needed 3 .30mm shims.

Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:29 pm

right, and Tommy what Adriel said and Russ explained perfectly is that the end play is set AFTER you've gotten the case all buttoned up. you don't need to worry about it, since everything is on the outside and accessible. 8)

As an update, I finished installing the motor and getting allll the preliminary stuff out of the way today while im home for spring break. Going to try and fire it in the morning!!!!

Tue Mar 23, 2010 12:36 pm

Thanks for the responses guys. I might try Russ's first method this evening because I only have feeler gauges at the moment. Has anyone ever buttoned up a case and found that the endplay was too short to use all 3 shims (i.e. indicating a crank machining problem)? I guess that's what I'm worried about, not that I have reason to worry or anything. I just don't want to have to tear apart the cases once I have permatex on them.

Good luck with your engine Joe!

Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:21 pm

I believe someone here did have that problem about a month ago. It was suggested to either return the flywheel to where it was purchased, or grind (at a machine shop) some off. Russ was the one helping out on that issue, and thought that the crank had too much removed from the flywheel end of it. If I remember correctly, the poster couldn't use 2 shims, let alone the 3 required, as he didn't have enough end play. I don't remmeber who it was though.

Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:28 pm

JSMskater wrote: right, and Tommy what Adriel said and Russ explained perfectly is that the end play is set AFTER you've gotten the case all buttoned up. you don't need to worry about it, since everything is on the outside and accessible. 8)

As an update, I finished installing the motor and getting allll the preliminary stuff out of the way today while im home for spring break. Going to try and fire it in the morning!!!!

And if it doesn't fire... You're fired. :D

Tue Mar 23, 2010 3:52 pm

Quote: the poster couldn't use 2 shims, let alone the 3 required, as he didn't have enough end play.

that dummy just didn't seat the oil seal so the flywheel was binding on the seal face :roll: That's what happens when you only work on it in spurts and get side tracked looking for something to set the seal in the case.
I got it figured out after some head scratching, I have .004"end play now. :D