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Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:05 pm

I was hanging with a stoner friend the other day and he mentioned that in California the law allows passangers to drink if they are in the back seats as "he thought" a Westy was considered an RV if it has a kitchen. Is this true in CA?

Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:11 pm

not sure but heres a thought, park the van and then drink away 8)

Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:15 pm

AFAIK, in British Columbia no open alcohol is permitted in the vehicle while it is being operated, and "It is a criminal offense to operate or be in the care or control of a vehicle, whether in motion or not, with a blood alcohol content of more than 0.08 percent."

Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:20 pm

I've looked into this before, and it seems to be one of those gray areas in the law. It's true that it's legal for passengers to drink in the "living area" of an RV while it is in motion, BUT, only if the alcohol is not accessible to the front passengers. In a large RV with a partition between the driver and the living area, this is certainly easy to do, but I question what would happen if you got pulled over in a Westy with passengers drinking in the back (assuming that the driver is 100% sober and not drinking). It seems to me that the alcohol would be pretty accessible to the front passengers even with somebody sitting on the back seat belted in.

Does anybody have first-hand experience with this scenario? I have to admit that I have allowed my rear passengers to drink before when I was driving down the road (and, before I get flamed, I was 100% sober), but I still didn't want to get pulled over to see what would happen. I'm not sure I would come out on the winning side of that equation.

Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:29 pm

Many states vary on it considerably. Some states may require there to be an actual kitchen and have all the RV amenities, plus be registered as an RV in order to be able to drink in it.

Others, not so much.

Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:56 pm

In california an open container in a vehicle gets you a free trip to jail. Unless it is an actual RV. If you drink in the back of your Vanagon you will get it taken form you.

Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:18 pm

Most people don't register their Vanagon as a RV. Did he register it as one? If not, it's not worth arguing with the cops. If so, he should look up the law that states they allow open containers within the vehicle.

Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:21 pm

CraigL wrote: I was hanging with a stoner friend the other day

NEED YOU ASK?

Fri Feb 27, 2009 5:33 pm

Some interesting links

http://www.hispanianews.com/archive/2005/10/21/10.htm

http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15435

http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/skp/4thamendment.htm

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/injury/New-fact-sheet03/OpenContainer.pdf

go to page 36:
http://www.saferoads.org/Roadmap2007.pdf

Quote: these laws must conform to the Federal requirements.

for passengers of vehicles designed, maintained or used primarily for the transportation of people for compensation (such as buses, taxi cabs, and limousines) or the living quarters of motor homes;

What the states can do is define what consititutes a motor home. Usually this includes having toilet, cooking, and sleeping facilities.

Quote: the Florida "Possession of open containers of alcoholic beverages in vehicles prohibited; penalties", law number 316.1936, states:

"(b) It is unlawful and punishable as provided in this section for any person to possess an open container of an alcoholic beverage or consume an alcoholic beverage while seated in or on a motor vehicle that is parked or stopped within a road as defined in this section. Notwithstanding the prohibition contained in this section, passengers in vehicles designed, maintained, and used primarily for the transportation of persons for compensation and in motor homes are exempt."

Quote: One other point to consider. While your motor home might be your "home" for the purpose of where you live, it is not a home for the purposes of searches by law enforcement. There is a 1985 Supreme Court case that held for the purpose of a law enforcement search, a motor home is the same as a car. The case is California v. Carney, 471 U.S. 386. Normally a warrant is required to search your home (sticks and bricks). The cops were allowed to do a warrantless search of a motor home and the drugs that they found were admissible as evidence. "The Motor Vehicle Exception", first recognized in Carroll v. United States and often referred to as the Carroll doctrine. It has evolved into an expansive search authority that effectively renders the need to obtain a warrant to search a vehicle unnecessary.

In California v. Carney, the Court upheld the warrantless search of a motor home by Law Enforcement, concluding that while capable of being used as a house, the RV was more like a vehicle.

In United States v. Ross, the Court stated, "The scope of warrantless searches based on probable cause is no narrower and no broader than the scope of a search authorized by a warrant supported by probable cause. Only the prior approval of a magistrate is waived if probable cause justifies the search of a lawfully stopped vehicle, it justifies the search of every part of the vehicle and its contents that may conceal the object of the search."

Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:17 pm

It's usually goes undetected if:

1) Tint the windows.
2) No one acts like a jackass.

Gone on many of road trips, allowing back passengers to drink.

Do not underestimate the importance of rule #2

Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:53 pm

If a cop gets ANYWHERE CLOSE to you and your passengers have open beers all they need to do is down them right quick, toss them in the trash and "we drank those with lunch."

Fri Feb 27, 2009 6:59 pm

I think the new Cali law is .01 for BAC. That what I heard.

Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:01 pm

Don't let anyone drink in your Westy unless you have a porta potty. Otherwise they might use the sink.

Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:04 pm

jackbombay wrote: If a cop gets ANYWHERE CLOSE to you and your passengers have open beers all they need to do is down them right quick, toss them in the trash and "we drank those with lunch."
Better be damned sure the driver is well below 0.08 BAC. Like 0.00...

In California, at least...
The slightest smell of alcohol, an empty or partially empty bottle or can ANYwhere within eyesight, or the slightest red in the eyes is enough "probable cause" to have you do a field sobriety test.
Do not underestimate how strong the smell of an open beer is to a trained nose.
If they "see" anything they don't like its time for the field breathalizer test.. if you refuse/decline that, then its down to the local station where you get the REAL test.. the one they will use in court.

Thing is.. there was a time when a cop might have given you the benefit of the doubt. No longer. They can not risk the liability of letting someone go, who might drink some more, and kill somebody 15 minutes later.

I highly recommend you NOT risk drinking in the rear seat of a vanagon/Westy.. unless you want to try your luck with the courts.

And don't even think about it in Mexico on any paved roads. Policia (real and fake) are just WAITING to fleece you for being stupid.

Fri Feb 27, 2009 7:04 pm

meyervw wrote: I think the new Cali law is .01 for BAC. That what I heard.

Wow Thats less than like ONE Beer or One Shot. To bad all the actors and actresses in LA are exempt from that.

Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:26 pm

McVanagon wrote: It's usually goes undetected if:
1) Tint the windows.
2) No one acts like a jackass.
Gone on many of road trips, allowing back passengers to drink.
Do not underestimate the importance of rule #2
As this thread is evolving, I feel the need to add the most important rule that I neglected to add. (but assumed was a given, since the title was "Drinking if in rear seats?")

3) Driver not drinking. At all. Ever.

Fri Feb 27, 2009 8:46 pm

I believe in CA, it's got to be designated an RV. Verification is available via the blue metal sticker/tag (w/ serial number) that is typically affixed to the passenger B pillar at about 10:00 position from the gas cap on a 2WD Westy.

Long time ago, in my first Westy, we were tested on this issue. However we were parked at the time. The local police officer agreed w/ the RV designation - but asked that we be careful, etc. I was the designated driver - so no problems.

But like many who have commented before me, why tempt the "fates"?

Fri Feb 27, 2009 10:56 pm

j_dirge wrote:
And don't even think about it in Mexico on any paved roads. Policia (real and fake) are just WAITING to fleece you for being stupid.

Most cops (in any country) wont hassle you unless your doing something stupid.
The laws are different in different states and countrys. Some allow an open container for the passengers and some dont. In mexico an open container is allowed for the passenger.
But nowhere is it legal or not stupid to drink and drive.
If you really want to know what the law is why not ask a police officer in your area.

Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:27 pm

back in May 1981 a buddy rented a brand new Vanagon Westy and we drove it to Colorado. Back in the day the first place Canucks used to stop when we crossed the border was a convenience store to get some beers, usually Olympia or Raineer, when Washington (the state) made their own beer (before microbrews). We took a wrong exit and somewhere down the road past Wenatchee on a two lane I pass a cop going the other way. He pulls a u-ie and stops me. We try to hide the empty Oly cans by pushing them into the back.

the cops say don't bother trying to hide the cans. "Are you drunk," he says.

No sir, I says.

Okay, you can drink but ya can;t be drunk, he says.

We are not drunk we says.

You look tired, he says. There's a wide spot up the road why don't you stop and put the top up for a while and have a rest, he says.

We'll do just that sir, I says.

And we did

1981? To quote Gene Cernan while walking on the Moon, "where did the time go?"

Fri Feb 27, 2009 11:30 pm

In Oregon we have different plates for RV's. My first van had plates that actually said "Motor Home" stamped into the plate in small letters below the numbers. It actually was registered as an RV and my friends were quick to take advantage of the open container exception.