TheSamba.com :: View topic - Not really a barn find but close...SCCA Rally veteran in NH

Wed Sep 16, 2009 3:28 pm

Hot VWs coverage? That's exciting! Good work with coming up with that idea.

I'm sure during the resto you will strive to find NOS or good used German parts as needed.

Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:22 pm

Wow! I also haven't had a subscription for quite a few years.

But this might just bring me back! 8)

Max

Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:30 pm

Thanks for the support. I was looking through some stuff I found in the door pocket and found a hand-drawn wiring diagram for the circuits for the lights, helps sort out the relays under the hood.

I guess the duck decal on the rear deck is a Europe thing? Anyone got an idea of where I might find one?

Sun Sep 20, 2009 12:08 pm

So I started collecting more detailed pictures to prep for this project. Most of these decals are no longer available, should I be able to get them reproduced through a vinyl sign company?? The UNIROYAL one most likely will not return to the car, I'm pretty sure I'm going to be going with the Pirelli livery from a little earlier in the career due to 'issues' with Uniroyal.

This says 'COMPETITOR' under the green line

Since SCCA doesn't run a ProRally series any more, these will have to be recreated or found NOS.

Originally I thought this was part of the stripes but it is actually laid over the stripes...hmmm. Any idea where the RALLYE might be from? The stripes on the rear quarter are BLACK-WHITE-BLACK where the doors are just 3 black stripes.

These two I'm not going to mess with, hopefully they will survive the restoration. I suspect they will be hard to replace.

Multiple relays for the lights, thankfully I found a diagram explaining them all and the switches!

This should be fun to sort out

This is a cool little trick on the car. The switch under the plate works a light under the decklid. Slap the plate and it turns on, slap it again to shut if off. Slick little idea for DD as well. Stray Catalyst checked it out Saturday and thought it was pretty cool as well. He brought me a driver's door panel for the car, thanks!!

Suspect the sound quality of the radio won't be that great with this set up:)

This plate doesn't cover anything I can see, must be to keep the foot from catching on the carpeting?

Under the driver's seat, more flare clips

Under the navigator seat...fire extinguisher

After some questions about the motor, until I crack into it I don't know what it actually is. I've been told a couple of things, one that this is the stock motor and there is a modified one in NJ, the other said this is the modified motor (1641). This is not the original motor according to the number but that really doesn't mean anything other than it didn't come with it. It has a Weber replacement carb, an 009 and except for the sending unit for oil pressure, otherwise looks stock externally.

Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:55 pm

surely there is a decal maker who would want to get onboard this project.
with potential magazine exposure the coverage would be great advertizing in these rough times plus to know they helped restore/save this awesome piece of history.

Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:39 am

I hope to find one. I have gotten an offer from a vendor here with German OEM stuff who has offered to help out in return for exposure. I see this as a win\win deal. Anyone that does this will not only get mention in the article, but I'll put them in my sig as well.

I been trying to contact some of the people from the past involved with this car. So far I have been able to reach one who co-drove an event back in 1982. He validates my memory. When I talked to Al all those years ago, I remember him saying the engine in the car was pretty stock but there was a hopped up motor in the garage in NJ. Now, Bill thought the motor in the car was the hi-po one, but as we can see, it really looks like a very stock 1600 with an 009 and replacement Weber. The other co-driver clearly remembers this:

You have to change the lights.

I'll dig up the photo I have and send it to you. The corner workers loved the VW because "it smiled".

The array of driving lights looked like a big smile when it was coming down on them through the dark.

Fantastic find, congratulations. Does it still have the Formula Vee spec. engine with twin down draft Webers?

It had a tremendous amount of torque. When the car was dropped off at my parents house for me to prep, I was amazed at how much torque it had. I didn't have anything to compare it to, as it was the first VW I got to drive

This man now is a senior engineer at a British car aftermarket supplier so I suspect he can tell the difference between the two. Now I'm really itching to get down to NJ to find out what is really in the garage. I'm not sure when the widow is getting back from Europe but I hope it is soon!

Wed Sep 23, 2009 9:26 am

New here and just came across this. Gotta say it is refreshing to read and see a unique story like this on an otherwise somewhat repetative forum. Best wishes for the project and don't give up, you have an audience that enjoys the updates!

Wed Sep 23, 2009 3:48 pm

DC576 wrote: New here and just came across this. Gotta say it is refreshing to read and see a unique story like this on an otherwise somewhat repetative forum. Best wishes for the project and don't give up, you have an audience that enjoys the updates! Thanks! I can't say I wouldn't be doing this car if it wasn't for the feedback and interest everyone has shared...but it sure does make it special.

I got this from another who co-drove with Al in the 1983 STPR. The more I hear about Al, the more I really wish I had been able to talk to him more, sounds like he was special. I feel like I missed out on something.

"Scott,

I'm glad you got in touch. let me start by saying that I don't think that I have any pictures from the one run I made with Al, I just moved and I am in the middle of scraping through all my old files, rally stuff and pictures, and if I come across anything I'll be happy to send it along to you.

Al was a favorite competitor on mine. He was a quiet guy who rarely talked a lot, but an intense rally driver. The car was everyone's favorite back then. We all were driving various makes and models, but no one had a car that had been fussed and pampered over more than Al's. My roommate in the late 70's, Larry Doolittle, ran a shop that specialized in old bugs in Syracuse ("Bugs Only" - VW threatened legal action over the name as they had copyrighted "Bug" - which became Air Cooled Autos). Larry raced Bugs at dirt tracks around Central NY, so we had an interest in Al's car, and never could believe how tight that shell was, and how fast Al could drive it.

We ran against Al in the NEPRO/NEPRS series for a number of years. The rallies were long-distance events (12 hr rallies were considered short) and Al always seemed to be the victim of some little mistake that his navigator would make at 10 PM, or 1 AM out in the middle of nowhere, calling a left a right or a speed change at the wrong spot, and Al would wind up finishing well, but rarely at the top. He never got tired, never got mad, always seemed ready to try harder than anyone else.

We would all sit around a table after an event telling the usual rally lies, and would have to pry the words out of Al. He'd just show a little smile, shake his head, speak so low that he could hardly be heard, and say that he just didn't quite make it.

I think that I was in-between cars that year. Al was searching around for a navigator and asked, and I jumped at the chance. An opportunity to spend all night running with the master. I was one of the few guys who would sit in either seat just to compete, and I don't think I asked Al which side of the car he wanted me for; I didn't care, I was going to have a chance to spend the trip with a great guy in a great car.

I'll be darned if I can remember what caused us to DNF, but, it seems that we took a shortcut through a curve, hit a rock that split an oil line. We only got about three stages in and we were done. The car couldn't be repaired in time (this being the old days when services were every four or five stages apart) and we were time-barred. The only thing I remember after that is, since the breakdown occurred early, I went to a spectator area to watch the event in my driving suit, then went and worked with the Central New York stage crew, starting the cars on at least one night stage.

I had hit the triple: competitor, spectator, and worker, on the same event.

You have yourself one sweet ride. I'm sure the years have been unkind to the car. Al will be looking over your shoulder when you go to restore it. He had hundreds of hours on that car, always did things right when he fixed it, took a lot of pride in the car and his driving. We all knew he had one hand tied behind his back running against most of the cars he rallied with but his skill made it equal. I know that we went down a lot of dirt roads trying to catch that little orange Bug, but was always fast enough to stay in front (this was before Time Allowances were a common part of rallying).

And, the day that I ran in it might have been the only time that car DNF'd.

Thanks for the walk down Memory Lane. I will check with the Central New York crew (I'll see some folks tonight) and if we have anything I'll be in touch.

Frank"

Just thought you all might be interested in this.

Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:39 pm

This isn't going to help too much, but I remember seeing that duck sticker before when I was living in Germany. From what I can remember, I THINK (stress THINK on that) it was just a goofy sticker you could buy for your car. I want to say that I remember seeing it in the late 70's or early 80's when I was over there. I'll see if I can dig something up or see if I can get my brain cells to work better. I don't know if you could get them in the U.S. or not......

Now that I've thought about it, I used to always see that sticker on old Citroens - not that that's going to help too much. I'm on a few German sites right now trying to see if I can find a better pic or if someone still has em.

Found this one, it's close:

http://www.yatego.com/geldundzukunft/p,49e7883aa1b3f,4714d54ecbc170_0,aufkleber-ente

Another one without the black:

http://www.container-brueckner.de/img/geschichte/img07_big.gif

You can see a few small head shots on this older Citroen (Citroen had a model called Ente (duck) and I think that's why I always saw them on Citroens).

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/1244470784000/00827/aufkleber11_DW_Sons_827806g.jpg

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.w...0%26um%3D1

http://www.wolfgang-jaeger-nienburg.de/w_jaeger/citroen/ente123.jpg

Ugh, this is killing me!! That's about the best I can do for now man, sorry.

Thu Sep 24, 2009 3:13 am

Man, You should start a Facebook page for the Rally SB. It would be a great way for us fans to track the progress.

Thu Sep 24, 2009 9:46 am

Thank you for the new pics and updates. The decals should be able to be reproduced by your local sign shop. If you have a competent FastSigns in your area I would try speaking with them. I have had a number recreated by my local over the years with good results. With the exposure this car will receive they should be willing to lend a hand. Good luck and keep the updates coming.

Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:04 pm

Tattoogunman wrote: This isn't going to help too much, but I remember seeing that duck sticker before when I was living in Germany. From what I can remember, I THINK (stress THINK on that) it was just a goofy sticker you could buy for your car. I want to say that I remember seeing it in the late 70's or early 80's when I was over there. I'll see if I can dig something up or see if I can get my brain cells to work better. I don't know if you could get them in the U.S. or not......

Now that I've thought about it, I used to always see that sticker on old Citroens - not that that's going to help too much. I'm on a few German sites right now trying to see if I can find a better pic or if someone still has em.

Found this one, it's close:

http://www.yatego.com/geldundzukunft/p,49e7883aa1b3f,4714d54ecbc170_0,aufkleber-ente

Another one without the black:

http://www.container-brueckner.de/img/geschichte/img07_big.gif

You can see a few small head shots on this older Citroen (Citroen had a model called Ente (duck) and I think that's why I always saw them on Citroens).

http://www.welt.de/multimedia/archive/1244470784000/00827/aufkleber11_DW_Sons_827806g.jpg

http://images.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.w...0%26um%3D1

http://www.wolfgang-jaeger-nienburg.de/w_jaeger/citroen/ente123.jpg

Ugh, this is killing me!! That's about the best I can do for now man, sorry. Hey, thanks!

This is the one:

Looks identical. Funny how two of the former co-drivers both said in their first replies..."You HAVE to make sure you keep the DUCK."

My daughter is going to France for a week in April, if I can't find a source between now and then, I'll see if maybe she can find one while she's there?

I've been contacted by a member here whose sister might be able to help reproduce some of the decals for what I think is a pretty reasonable charge.

I think Saturday I'm going to start diving into it.

Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:54 pm

About that duck

I have a friend who is quite knowledgeable about citroens.
I just asked him about the duck.

here is his response:

The Germans refer to the 2CV as "the duck." I don't know why, it seems odd to me.

There was a special edition done for the German market in the 1980s where the cars were painted bright green (for the Green Party) and had a flying duck on the side with text that translated to "I fly lead free."

Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:57 pm

Your welcome, that was the closest I could find. Like I said, I used to see that sticker all of the time and that's why it stuck in my head :)

Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:59 pm

bryanbrutherford wrote: About that duck

I have a friend who is quite knowledgeable about citroens.
I just asked him about the duck.

here is his response:

The Germans refer to the 2CV as "the duck." I don't know why, it seems odd to me.

There was a special edition done for the German market in the 1980s where the cars were painted bright green (for the Green Party) and had a flying duck on the side with text that translated to "I fly lead free."

Yeah, I meant to put that in my original post. Duck in German is "ente" and if you Google it (especially on the German Google site), you'll get a variety of different hits :) That's how I found the stickers and the pics.

Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:22 pm

It's also known as a "Deux Cheveau" - French for 2 horse, that being how many horsepower the original had. It's a car that makes the VW bug look luxurious verging on opulent, but as a cheap, fairly reliable car, they were quite popular. Uglier than a thousand pound cockroach, but popular.

Stray

Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:26 pm

Stray Catalyst wrote: It's also known as a "Deux Cheveau" - French for 2 horse, that being how many horsepower the original had. It's a car that makes the VW bug look luxurious verging on opulent, but as a cheap, fairly reliable car, they were quite popular. Uglier than a thousand pound cockroach, but popular.

Stray

Actually it was "deux chevaux vapeur", litteraly two horse steam. It wasn't the horsepower actually but the fiscal horse-power which is part of how french tax cars.

Jc

Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:03 pm

Slow crappy or whatever, I'd still love to have a 2cv :lol: There's a parent at my school that occasionally drive his kid to school in one, it's real nice with the amber lights and everything.
BTW, the rally super is lookin good!

Thu Sep 24, 2009 4:17 pm

There's a guy just over the border in ME that has one of them that is a panel truck. Cool in a spindley, ugly sorta way. I'd take one.

Looks like this, even the same color:

Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:19 pm

I think about 1/2 of the Citroens 2CV's in Germany had a duck decal on them.