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Thu May 07, 2009 12:19 pm

Man plumber you don't mess around. Still have stitches in your mellon and you already have a nice cage twisted up. Good work. 8)

Thu May 07, 2009 3:58 pm

pafree wrote: i have seen diagonal braces in the windshield area of offroad racers, trophy trucks and even rock crawlers. do yall think this would limit visiblity too much for him?...

The problem with adding those to PlumberBill's car is that there is nothing to support the dash bar under them. In that Class 1 car shown, and many Trophy Trucks the front frame structure ties into the cage at that point and also angle outward to the front cage corners. This Berrien and frames like it do NOT.

Thu May 07, 2009 3:59 pm

HILLAHOLIC wrote: Like this

YES!

And that includes yes on the gussets too. SCORE rules for race car cages require gussets at the 4 top corners of the cockpit. Remember that gussets are there to increase and spread weld area at joints, not to stiffen the joint. If you stiffen the joint, the cage breaks right at the end of the gusset. Best gussets on that 1-1/2" x .120 cage are .120 plate minimum 3" per side. Gussets at the bottom of the A pillars from the front bracing to the top rail are good.

Thu May 07, 2009 4:06 pm

plumberbill wrote: so if i add the b-pillars to box out the x-bracing behind the seats and add to the roof x-brace turning it into an asterisk , could i skip the additional a-pillars (that would hinder entrance/exit). are adding gussets to the top front corners of the cage recommended in addition to this?

Yeah, the need for the Windwing posts are dramatically reduced by those B pillars.

Thu May 07, 2009 4:28 pm

Rockwood wrote:

Yeah, I think this should be enough. Obviously, more is better, but I think the B pillar would contribute more than a second A-pillar.

I've always added gussets up there. One thing that I would do, to keep the weight down and room up, is use 1" tube for the corner gussets. No need for 1.50" 0.120" wall DOM tubing for corner gussets.

Good advice Rockwood. In fact making gussets out of material as stout as the cage actually makes the primary tube likely to break at the end of the gusset. (I know I'm repeating, kinda like a school professor, Huh?)

plumberbill wrote: diagonals in the center windshield would be nice but would really hinder line of site.

Rockwood wrote:
Up to you. They're pretty helpful. As long as you're looking far enough ahead, those bars shouldn't hide anything. Just make sure to use 1" tubing instead.

SCORE mandated single diagonal corner to corner, or A or V bars, bars of 1" in the windshield on wider cars like Chenowth Class 1 2-seaters in the 90s. Drivers DO get used to them, but your car isn't that wide.

Dale M. wrote: Also carry down bars through to lower frame rails...

Dale

Yep. Any tube that intersects with another tube should be "backed up" on the other side, if possible.[/quote]

In this car, the B pillar will already be backed up by the 1" diagonals under the top rail. Adding a vertical wouldn't hurt, but is not necessary.

Rockwood wrote:
BTW, I think I'm going to add an x-brace to the main hoop of my 4LWD after seeing this. I wonder how many of us (especially "sand rails") will be revisiting our cages now?

That's a mighty fine thing to do. I recommend it for all of us.

I would like to point out that while I keep referring to SCORE rules or other such regulations, I know VERY WELL that this is NOT about a car being used in sanctioned race events, and which will probably never be subject to any of those rules or Tech Inspection.

But I've been playing with offroad Bugs and Buggies since my 1st ride in a Buggy in 1967. That was with the man who a few months later would be the Chief of Tech for the then new NORRA for the 1st Baja 1000. and for the offroad buggy class racing at Ascot Park in SoCal. I had been working Tech with him at Road Races for several years then.

This here will be another repeat. In all those years of racing Tech and offroad play, I've seen a LOT more people hurt and killed playing offroad than racing. Racing rules are there to protect people from getting hurt doing pretty much the same thing people do playing. Although generally without the help of certain substances which often add their influence to the play. So a lot of the sense of racing safety rules applies very well to play cars.

Thu May 07, 2009 4:34 pm

Odyknuck wrote: Yes I nominate this for a Sticky Too! This particular design has come forth from many minds on the Samba and Woodsbuggy.com and it shows what can happen when people with like thinking and a love for a hobby can do. Great job Plumberbill! See ya at Wellsville.

I 3rd that! Maybe right there under Safety with the seat belt issue HamburgerBrad?

Thu May 07, 2009 5:48 pm

Dale M. wrote: Hampered vision or no vision at all.... You already walked away once.....

I think in time you will find that visually any bracing in windshield area will become invisible as you get uses to driving new enhanced roll cage design.... Serious off road boys and girls seem to adapt to it...

Dale

Dale your right. The X bracing needs to go in the front windshield. It looks like it's allready a done deal. Just think about the people in the back seat who hit the bars. Look at the first picture on page one and tell me "what part of the roll cage is laying down" ?????????? Front or back.

Fri May 08, 2009 5:27 am

some more progress

Fri May 08, 2009 11:21 am

UncleDirty wrote: Man plumber you don't mess around. Still have stitches in your mellon and you already have a nice cage twisted up. Good work. 8)
got the stitches out, healing real good. hurts to chew cause all the muscles to my jaw are still banged up

Fri May 08, 2009 11:36 am

plumberbill wrote: UncleDirty wrote: Man plumber you don't mess around. Still have stitches in your mellon and you already have a nice cage twisted up. Good work. 8)
got the stitches out, healing real good. hurts to chew cause all the muscles to my jaw are still banged up

WOW Bill I can see all the way down your throat, did your brains seep out thru the gash when you were not looking? :P

Fri May 08, 2009 10:33 pm

odyknuck you funny guy.............
more progress gonna weld it up tomorrow

Sat May 09, 2009 1:09 am

over kill much? :wink: :wink:

JK, the rail looks great you moved right along and took care of business. bravo. i nominate this for the saftey sticky's.

Sat May 09, 2009 4:57 am

runslikeapenguin wrote: over kill much? :wink: :wink:

JK, the rail looks great you moved right along and took care of business. bravo. i nominate this for the saftey sticky's.
i bought a lot of material so i might as well use it :lol:
could'nt have done it without everyones help, thanks to all that have chimed in.

Sat May 09, 2009 6:14 am

Now that top and sides are really supported, (I hate to bring this up) but how about floor area, seems you have taken care of 5 sides of the "safety" cube"...

Dale

Sat May 09, 2009 6:43 am

Dale M. wrote: Now that top and sides are really supported, (I hate to bring this up) but how about floor area, seems you have taken care of 5 sides of the "safety" cube"...

Dale
i'm open for suggestions, what do ya have in mind.

Sat May 09, 2009 7:06 am

Wow awesome job. The frame looks a 100 times better. I'm curious how much weight has been added over the old design. I'm sure that's not much of an issue with the Subi engine though. Great work!

Sat May 09, 2009 7:17 am

plumberbill wrote: Dale M. wrote: Now that top and sides are really supported, (I hate to bring this up) but how about floor area, seems you have taken care of 5 sides of the "safety" cube"...

Dale
i'm open for suggestions, what do ya have in mind.

Not sure as can't see floor area?.... Does it have a "X" brace from corner to corner of passenger area... Don't what to get too carried away with all this repairs, but if area where seats are secured is not secure and seating comes loose you will rattle around like a marble in a box box so to speak.... All I am suggesting is you "take a look" at this point....

Dale

Sun May 10, 2009 5:04 am

Dale M. wrote: plumberbill wrote: Dale M. wrote: Now that top and sides are really supported, (I hate to bring this up) but how about floor area, seems you have taken care of 5 sides of the "safety" cube"...

Dale
i'm open for suggestions, what do ya have in mind.

Not sure as can't see floor area?.... Does it have a "X" brace from corner to corner of passenger area... Don't what to get too carried away with all this repairs, but if area where seats are secured is not secure and seating comes loose you will rattle around like a marble in a box box so to speak.... All I am suggesting is you "take a look" at this point....

Dale
on page 2 there is a pic of the car that shows the floor

Sun May 10, 2009 7:02 am

How about some cross tubes where major "down tubing" connects to chassis...

Especially under front windshield area....

Red line are actually across bottom of chassis though it looks like they connect upper tubes to lower tubes on sides in picture...

Dale

Sun May 10, 2009 8:00 am

I think I'd lose the cross bracing behind the front seat / right behind your head. Either that or run a straight bar behind the seats joining the two sides.