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Sat May 02, 2009 8:44 am

a few weeks ago I sold my '92 cabriolet show / weekend car to move onto something different... plan is to buy a pop-up camper, and build a rail buggy. 3 other guys at work have rails, and several others have dirt bikes and such, several times a year everyone goes to Turkey Bay OHV park for the weekend. I've had a few air-cooled vws in the past and always wanted a buggy. I also plan to eventually title and register it for the occasional trip to the store, so there are considerations to be made there.

Last week I picked up a rolling chassis along with a swing axle fastback as an engine donor via craigslist for $400, and I have $1000 to make it serviceable. It appears to have sat around for quite some time. Judging by the multitude of different shock mounts and remnants of mounts at the rear, it's had an interesting life.

The fame is a little unorthodox and the rear section needs to be redone and other sections need a bit more added to it... obviously the roof bars need to be moved. One guy at work is giving me a set of poly seats, so at least that's taken care of. Still not sure if I am going to leave the t3 engine as suitcase or not. Between everyone at work we might be able to come up with the stuff to convert it to upright w/ a generator.

it's not going to be super fancy, but I think it'll get the job done.

anyone seen a chassis like that before?

as it was when I got it:

several hours later

rear section

suitcase

Sat May 02, 2009 9:40 am

for 1400 bucks you could have a decent looking, running rail. that looks like alotta work but if your up for it do it.

Sat May 02, 2009 1:48 pm

keep the type 3 motor... guess what happens when you bust a belt on a upright motor you get no genertor and your engine overheats... on a type 3 all you lose is the genertor so your safe if the belts pop... i can walk you thou replaceing it with a moder alternater off a geo metro or any small alternater...

so me being a type 3 guy i would stay with that motor... once i get my type 4 my type 3 motor is goin into my baja... no need to let a good motor sit...

Sat May 02, 2009 2:08 pm

Read the thread "Almost lost a friend today" before you do too much to that frame... Might be more trouble than it's worth if you plan to take it to an OHV area.

Other than that, looks like it could become a decent rail with some work. The T3 pancake should motivate it pretty well to get into offroading. Make sure to brace up the frame!

Sat May 02, 2009 3:38 pm

69_67VWBug wrote: for 1400 bucks you could have a decent looking, running rail. that looks like alotta work but if your up for it do it.

Yeah, I looked at several in that price range and they were still going to need a bit of work. running, yes. completely functional, no. This way I'll wind up with something better for the same price. (that's the idea anyway) and so far as a lot more more work... just like with r/c airplanes, part of the fun is putting it together. I'm not much for cash, keys and go.

Quote: guess what happens when you bust a belt on a upright motor you get no genertor and your engine overheats...

what happens is your generator light comes on, you pull over - and put your spare belt on. (what else would you do?)

Quote: Read the thread "Almost lost a friend today" before you do too much to that frame... Might be more trouble than it's worth if you plan to take it to an OHV area.

I did look through that thread this morning and I did a bit of re-analyzing and made some notes of more changes to make. It's a good reminder for everyone that there is risk involved with everything you do, and that accidents do happen. Is the chassis I have going to be as safe as others available? probably not, but you could call me less of a thrill seeker than most. It's still safer than an ATV. I was originally going to get a KDX220 but decided to go with a buggy instead.

Sat May 02, 2009 4:33 pm

vw_nick wrote:
Quote: guess what happens when you bust a belt on a upright motor you get no genertor and your engine overheats...

what happens is your generator light comes on, you pull over - and put your spare belt on. (what else would you do?)

well some people dont know what to do when that happpens and what if the light doesn't work... i just trust a type 3 motor more than my bug motors and there made to froce way more air then the uprights...

well to every man his own posion...

if you do what to get rid of the type 3 tins... theres alot of people would love to buy them...

Sun May 03, 2009 9:09 am

j5josher wrote: vw_nick wrote:
Quote: guess what happens when you bust a belt on a upright motor you get no genertor and your engine overheats...

what happens is your generator light comes on, you pull over - and put your spare belt on. (what else would you do?)

well some people dont know what to do when that happpens and what if the light doesn't work... i just trust a type 3 motor more than my bug motors and there made to froce way more air then the uprights...

If they don't know how to change an alt belt (or don't have a spare) they're setting themselves up for disaster and really have no business headed out in the boonies in a vw.

VWnick - You're doing the right thing, tear it down and assess the condition of all the components and reweld/replace/add where necessisary. Nothing wrong with the pancake cooling, as for it providing more air, that's up for debate and anyway upright cooling isn't an issue in a rail unless it's not setup properly.

Sun May 03, 2009 10:34 am

i paid 500 for my rail running. Went from this

to this

And ya it is fun puting em together.

Mon May 04, 2009 3:49 pm

caromin wrote: j5josher wrote: vw_nick wrote:
Quote: guess what happens when you bust a belt on a upright motor you get no genertor and your engine overheats...

what happens is your generator light comes on, you pull over - and put your spare belt on. (what else would you do?)

well some people dont know what to do when that happpens and what if the light doesn't work... i just trust a type 3 motor more than my bug motors and there made to froce way more air then the uprights...

If they don't know how to change an alt belt (or don't have a spare) they're setting themselves up for disaster and really have no business headed out in the boonies in a vw.

VWnick - You're doing the right thing, tear it down and assess the condition of all the components and reweld/replace/add where necessisary. Nothing wrong with the pancake cooling, as for it providing more air, that's up for debate and anyway upright cooling isn't an issue in a rail unless it's not setup properly.

well okay to each his own...

the type 3 is the basis of a type 4 right...
and the type 3 was used for stock high perfomace vdubs... for there time...

and also its easier to clean off.... but some people dont like to try new things so if your into upright go upright i dont care...

and with the type 3 you can put a board or something over the engine and have another cooler holder... just an idea...

Mon May 04, 2009 6:12 pm

Saturday I pulled the engine out of the fastback, pulled the buggy out of the garage and turned it around... found out the t3 cooling tins didn't fit within the rear cage of the buggy. Though I'm already planning on cutting the rear of the chassis off I didn't want to do it quite yet and I also wanted to keep the skid plate to help get the engine up into position since I was by myself. I didn't have a socket at home for the fan, so that had to stay on but I did get all the tin off and had it up into position only to find that the flywheel didn't quite fit within the bellhousing - seems that I need to clearance it for the larger flywheel, guess it had a 1200 or a 1300 in it before. (?) I wanted to see if I could get it to run, the PO said it used to run but no longer had spark so I assume the points are corroded or something. The plan was to put the transmission from the fastback in the buggy as a starting point anyway, since it's probably had less abuse thus far, assuming it works ok. I'm not sure on the rear axle length on that though... I know the torsion housing is a bit different. The wheels I have are 5 lug and the fastback is a 4 lug, granted the rear brakes are larger... but I don't have wheels to go with it at the moment.

So far as the whole pancake vs upright debate... not totally decided yet but I'll probably go upright. Honestly, I don't really like how it looks as pancake and I'm not too keen on the idea of the fan sucking in all the dust and such that's kicked up near the rear end. The efficiency of the cooling seems suspect to me to, seeing as it looks to be about the same fan that's on an upright but it's not over-driven like on an upright. Current plan is to use a 1500 shroud w/ dp tins and a remote bypass cooler / filter setup. Not sure if the carbs will clear the shroud... linkage could be a pain to setup but isn't the major concern.

Mon May 04, 2009 6:36 pm

well i'll ask while the tins are still freely open.. how much would you like for them and the dual carbs?

Mon May 04, 2009 7:21 pm

if you use an early shroud I think your carbs will clear, if you use the later style or doghouse you might find the T-3 manifolds are too short and or not angled enough for the carbs to clear the widest part of the shroud. Ran into this one myself in the past.

Mon May 04, 2009 7:34 pm

having just removed the fan, I'll retract my statement about it's size, it's a pretty big fan.

I haven't set about trying to price the stuff yet j5josher, I'll keep you in mind when I do. - think I'm still going to see if the carbs work out.

thanks for the tip ZARJDR.

Tue May 26, 2009 3:06 pm

I've been really busy these past few weeks planning and configuring my budget. Just made my first parts order today... in the meanwhile, I stripped the fastback and it was hauled off last week. This past weekend picked up a '72 super beetle rolling shell for $100 and cut the IRS out of it.

The engine is in pretty good condition, and w/ an odometer reading of 44k on the fastback, everything adds up to support that it was 44k and not 144. I brought it into work to mess w/ it in my spare time. The leakdown on the right side was excellent but the left side had leakage at cylinder 4 between the head and cylinder so I took the head off to lap the cylinders into it... cleaned the carbon off the valves and checked the guides while at it, they're a little worn but still ok. Having not run it, I guess it could still have a spun rod bearing or something but there wasn't any glitter in the gunk in the bottom of the crankcase.

Started calling around to source tubing to rebuild the roll cage and rear engine cage today. Need to check the metal supermarket still. There are several race shops in town but I think they'll have a race shop markup.

Wed May 27, 2009 11:45 am

how much of the cage are you keeping? I'm not sure if I'd use much of it. A Burien Warrior kit is ~$389 plus ship. It depends on if you're jumping it or going to public dunes or just tooling around in.

Wed May 27, 2009 8:26 pm

I'll be used in the woods. There are a few large state run OHV parks within an hour or two from here. It's not a traditional chassis but it seems to have survived ok so far, and with a little work to make it a bit safer and ascetically pleasing it will do what I need it to - I'm replacing the windshield frame, roll-bar, roof rails, and engine cage. (basically, keeping the floor and sides and narrowing the front of the chassis some & replacing the beam clamps) I'm not looking to fly off cliffs or scale vertical hills - just after a safer alternative to an ATV or dirt bike at the same price. I'm budgeted at $200 for materials for the chassis, another $275 would mean not getting $270 worth of stuff I need. I'd love to have a "nicer" chassis, but unless something comes up, it's out of my price range.

I have $600 left and I still need chassis materials, seat belts, a fuel pump, cv boots, some switches, paint, tie rod ends, a brake master cylinder and a rear wheel / tire solution.

I'm planning on selling the 12" wide, 5 lug wheels and purchasing new 8" wide 4 lug wheels to go w/ the type 3 rear drums. I had several inquiries on the wheels when I posted a want to trade ad on craigslist, so I should be able to move them ok, and only have to use $50 out of budget to get the new wheels.

I'm not sure the tires will survive dismounting and remounting, which means I'll be hitting up the used tire dealers in town for some tires.. retreads are an option but a $180 option. If I purchase the warrior chassis, it will leave me with about $150 which means I won't be able to finish it. I do have the original dual solex carbs posted for sale, and still need to post the type 3 sheet metal for sale... but I don't think they'll pull in enough to make up the difference.

I did just see that Berrien should be at a show in my area in October which would save me the freight - which is interesting.... however, the Mrs is due to pop out our latest addition to the family within the next few weeks and October is a long way away. The longer it takes to get this together, the higher the chance is that it won't ever get finished. (ask my '84 vanagon westfalia - it a project that stalled with the arrival of child no. 1)

(jeesh, this is verbose. I assure you, I'm nowhere near as good a communicating in person.)

Fri May 29, 2009 6:00 pm

got quite bit done today, cleaned the transmission, need to reseal the nose cone and take a peak in there while it's off. Cleaned the CV joints... one or two pitted spots but not terrible - they'll work until they break. Meant to order boots but didn't get a chance... Pic also shows progress on lapping cylinders to heads to rectify the combustion leak, and my disassembled generator... need to get a bearing for it at the alternator / starter shop down the street when I get a chance.

Wed Jun 24, 2009 5:38 pm

wheels & tires, $258. No longer considering street use.

Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:51 pm

progress.

Mon Jun 29, 2009 1:34 am

Looking good, though I think it still needs a lot of work.