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Mon May 25, 2009 10:41 pm

Well, the time has come to rebuild my engine.

Although I have built a Ford V8 once before 10 years ago, I've never built any ACVW engine before, so by beginning this thread, I'm hoping to use as best I can the combined knowledge and experience of the samba t3 community. That said, any advice, hints, and tips are appreciated throughout this process.

Here's what I'm starting with...

- I have a 69 square that has been converted to dual Weber ICT 34's
- The PO looks to have rebuilt the engine at least once before, but I have no clue as to how much displacement it really has or how much of the internals are original VW.
- The distributor is an 009, which I have actually had no trouble or complaint with.
- I plan on re-using the carbs and hopefully having them refurbished.
- The car run s very well once it is warm, but starts very roughly and always backfires when I'm coasting in third gear.
- I've got the bentley

Here are some pics of how it exists now.

So, here are some acknowledgements...

- Those plastic fuel filters are a bad idea and are going to go, but does anyond know why anyone would put two in a row like this?
- Is that hole in the top of the fan shroud vastly affecting my cooling? I would think that it probably does, although I don't know how it got there.
- Notice how bent the engine carrier is (in the pic that shows it bolted into the engine hanger). This makes me think the engine is pushed too far aft for some reason.... how could this happen? Is it not seated correctly against the tranny?
- In the pic showing the "inspected and tested" sticker, isn't there supposed to be a bolt on the left going into the tranny?

So what I would like to ask everyone's help with, is what are the parts I should start hunting for now before I remove this puppy and which should I save from the old engine? I would appreciate some help with the following questions if you have the time

1. What is a good machine shop in the L.A. area that will re-bore my engine and provide a good quality rebuild kit?
2. Do I need to keep things like oil temp sensor, oil bath, cooler, or can I get these easily because they cross with T1 availability?
3. What gasket kits will I need? Which are NLA? Which type of sealant should I use?
4. Does anyone know of a good Carb refurbisher in the L.A. area?
5. What type of engine carriage do I buy to get the engine out from beneath the car? I've seen people use something as simple as a 2x4 square with casters on it (I already have the engine stand)
6. I think I have all the tools necessary to rebuild this thing, but are there any special tools that made your rebuild alot easier?
7. What was the most difficult and time-consuming part of rebuilding the engine?
8. Should I consider an electronic ignition?

Thanks for all your answers, I'm sure I'll have plenty of more questions down the road. I plan to pull the engine just after the classic, so that means that I only have about 3 weeks to get parts together. Thanks!

Tue May 26, 2009 3:09 am

TommyBoyGomes wrote:

- Is that hole in the top of the fan shroud vastly affecting my cooling? I would think that it probably does, although I don't know how it got there.

that's your timing hole -- PM Russ if you can't find a cover/plug in the classfieds...
Quote:
- In the pic showing the "inspected and tested" sticker, isn't there supposed to be a bolt on the left going into the tranny?
it looks like there is one, from the other side from that pic.... but I would be more concerned with the sticker itself: that looks an awful lot like a GEX sticker...

Quote:
So what I would like to ask everyone's help with, is what are the parts I should start hunting for now before I remove this puppy and which should I save from the old engine? I would appreciate some help with the following questions if you have the time

1. What is a good machine shop in the L.A. area that will re-bore my engine and provide a good quality rebuild kit?

RIMCO
Quote:
2. Do I need to keep things like oil temp sensor, oil bath, cooler, or can I get these easily because they cross with T1 availability?

keep all the extra bits because pretty much NONE of it will be available new as a T1 part Quote:

5. What type of engine carriage do I buy to get the engine out from beneath the car? I've seen people use something as simple as a 2x4 square with casters on it (I already have the engine stand)

if you are buying something specifically to pull the engine, consider a motorcycle jack -- it made pulling my engine a breeze... Quote:

8. Should I consider an electronic ignition?

depends upon your definition of electronic ignition -- I run a Pertronix points-replacement in my 019 distributor with no problems... you may want to consider getting rid of that oo9 first...

Tue May 26, 2009 5:59 am

We're in the same boat, our fastback caught a bad case of rod knock a few months ago.

I've pulled a few Ford small blocks from the top, and dropping the engine out of a VW is a piece of cake by comparison. It's easy to do but you'll need to raise the back end of the car a bunch. Make sure you have good jack stands and be careful.

Now, there are surely some veterans on this board who have pulled a VW engine with nothing but a sharp stick, dental floss and a 14" frying pan, but...

Quote: Quote: Quote:

5. What type of engine carriage do I buy to get the engine out from beneath the car? I've seen people use something as simple as a 2x4 square with casters on it (I already have the engine stand)

if you are buying something specifically to pull the engine, consider a motorcycle jack -- it made pulling my engine a breeze...

Let me second that! Beg, borrow or buy a motorcycle jack! A motorcycle jack and a set of large jack stands made short work in pulling the engine in our fasty. First timer and we got it done in less than 4 hours (that includes all cleanup!). Carefully labeling the wiring harness (we have F.I.) and disconnecting hoses took the longest. Eight bolts and you're done.

By the way, am I the only one who did NOT expect the top engine-to-transmission bolts to be so long? I had no idea.

In a nutshell: Jack up the car, check to see if you can support the engine at that height with the motorcycle jack (!), completely prep and pull the engine free of the transmission, lower the engine as low as it will go, jack up the car so the engine will clear, pull. The jack has casters, so it will roll nice, and the engine just sits on the pads.

We got our jack at Harbor Freight for about $70 on sale. IF you purchase this one http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=2792 , then you may want to remove the locking pawl setup. The exhaust will block access to it when you lower the engine, and it will lock up -- you won't be able to lower the jack without disabling it. Of course, you can remove the locking bar when the jack is loaded with engine :oops:

Edited: Wrong URL for jack. Sorry!

Tue May 26, 2009 6:25 am

blankmange wrote:
Quote:
- In the pic showing the "inspected and tested" sticker, isn't there supposed to be a bolt on the left going into the tranny?
it looks like there is one, from the other side from that pic.... but I would be more concerned with the sticker itself: that looks an awful lot like a GEX sticker...
It sure is...

Tue May 26, 2009 7:44 am

Glenn wrote: blankmange wrote:
Quote:
- In the pic showing the "inspected and tested" sticker, isn't there supposed to be a bolt on the left going into the tranny?
it looks like there is one, from the other side from that pic.... but I would be more concerned with the sticker itself: that looks an awful lot like a GEX sticker...
It sure is...

I have zero experience with them, but are they really THAT bad? Just curious, not buying one.

Tue May 26, 2009 10:17 am

Thanks for the tips so far guys.

Just so I know, if my engine is indeed a GEX, does that mean that I shouldn't reuse the case or other parts? If anyone can fill me in on what pitfalls I'll run into as a result of having a "GEX" to rebuild, I'd appreciate it, thanks.

Tue May 26, 2009 10:36 am

I bought the HF 3 ton hi-lo jack with extra transmission adapter. If the engine won't clear the apron slide it off on a refrigerator box to drag out. RIMCO will mic your used parts for re-use.

Tue May 26, 2009 10:37 am

Every once in awhile, GEX screws up and builds a good engine. If the case is tried and true, and checks out OK, don't worry about it. usually if a GEX makes it through the first 10,000 miles or so it's not been a victim of their usual quality control.

Just as statistically speaking the best engine builder will lay the occasional egg, so does Gex build the occasional winner. Maybe you got lucky.

Tue May 26, 2009 12:02 pm

Our GEX rebuilt motor came with a big bolt imprint in the combustion chamber of the head right next to one of the spark plug holes. :shock:
Needless to say our engine guy at the time took it apart and checked it all over before installation.

Tue May 26, 2009 12:13 pm

Eesh, that's scary. How are GEX cases different from the original VW cases? Are they made of a softer metal than magnesium or were they just cast poorly? Hopefully a machine shop won't refuse to work on a GEX case...

I'll look at the motorcycle jack for removing the engine and get some fairly large stands as well (would about 3' of clearance be adequate to get teh engine out?)

blankmange, sorry for not clarifying, yes I meant a pointsless electronic system like the petronix.

btw, I found this very interesting resource on the differences between all the bosch distributors for ACVW's and the reasons for why some 009's have a flat spot and others don't. http://www.vw-resource.com/right_dizzy.html Turns out the flat spot in the 009 has to do with vaccuum advance/retard and difference between the 30 PICT and 34 PICT carb fuel to air ratios. Am I not experiencing this flat spot because the Weber 34 ICT's and don't have the vacuum retard? Thanks!

Tue May 26, 2009 1:18 pm

Quote: How are GEX cases different from the original VW cases?

they are original "used" cases as are the heads. Some are more used than others. the crank was cut twice before it was in our motor and the center main is worn past the wear limit for that cut.

We learned our lesson and built the last 3 engines ourselves.

Tue May 26, 2009 4:42 pm

dirtsandwich wrote: Glenn wrote: blankmange wrote:
Quote:
- In the pic showing the "inspected and tested" sticker, isn't there supposed to be a bolt on the left going into the tranny?
it looks like there is one, from the other side from that pic.... but I would be more concerned with the sticker itself: that looks an awful lot like a GEX sticker...
It sure is...

I have zero experience with them, but are they really THAT bad? Just curious, not buying one.

I have a GEX engine here, that I tore down. The engine never turned a wheel, when the car caught fire. One cylinder had never fired. The printing was still on the clutch disc.
The case has been lined bored 2.5mm oversize, and the thrust was cut 2.5mm. Right up to the dowel pin for the #1 bearing.
Pistons were not matched to the cylinders, and were used pistons. Nothing wrong with reusing pistons, but they should be kept with their original cylinders.
Heads were mismatched castings, and the compression ratios were not the same side to side.

Tue May 26, 2009 4:44 pm

... but other than that ... :lol:

Max

Tue May 26, 2009 5:14 pm

Max Welton wrote: ... but other than that ... :lol:

Max

Gex is german for Boat Anchor.

Tue Nov 10, 2009 3:38 pm

Alright everyone,

After a tad of delay, I'm pulling it this saturday. I'll be sure to keep photo updates and will probably have a few more questions as they pop up. Excited!

Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:03 am

Tommy,

We use a motorcycle jack to drop the engine. I would be able to come by and help you take it out on Saturday, if you need it. Let me know.

Craig

Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:06 pm

themobilenotary wrote: Tommy,

We use a motorcycle jack to drop the engine. I would be able to come by and help you take it out on Saturday, if you need it. Let me know.

Craig
Tommy had I not made plans for Saturday You know I would be there. If it carries over to Sunday call me and let me know I will come over and help you.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:20 pm

me and my dad actually just used a regualer car jack with a really big cup on it. then we built a cart out of 2 by 4s that could be centered on the jack. the wheels on the car where high enough that when we lowered the jack it would roll right off. i wish i still had it so i could take a pic but my dad used the 2 by 4s for somthing :evil: .

Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:33 pm

I have used a regular floor jack many times to get the engine out of the car. Now days, I use a transmission jack. They will go higher that a motorcycle or regular jack.
Looked at a new one today. It would go 30" high. That is high enough to get an engine out, and raise it back up to work on. 30" is the height of a work bench.
My old transmission jack is getting tired. It is probably at least 50 years old.

Thu Nov 12, 2009 4:07 pm

Thanks for the offers Craig and Don, but my dad and I (+ a friend) will probably be able to handle it. Although, if something goes awry, one of you might get a call ha.

Our strategy is that I'm gonna back the rear of the square onto ramps. However, because my square is kinda low, I imagine that I'm still going to have to jack it up a little more to get the engine out from beneath it.

Anyone know off-hand how tall a T3 engine is with the exhaust removed? Do most of you guys remove the carbs prior to pulling the engine to make it easier? Thanks!