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Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:26 am

TommyBoyGomes wrote: Russ, when your sender leaked, did you get oil splatter all over the top of the engine or did it just drip down and pool-up down under the cooler?

dumb question: did you happen to have the cooler checked out for internal leaks at a radiator shop or anything? might be worth getting that done if you're gonna be removing it anyway -- if I was you i'd just get a late cooler so you don't have to dick around and plus you'll have more oil volume going through the cooler.

as for being overfull... did you check that right after an oil change/before you started the motor? if so, then its probably just like you said, oil hadn't circulated through. if it was after you'd run it though, then it HAS to be overfull.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:37 am

Quote: (wik1 and tommy) it seems unlikely you didnt triple check torques on critical things like that. Which brings me to the hypothesis that there is either too much oil in the case, or excessive pressure (either from too heavy oil or too big/powerful a pump)

my seals looked like someone pulled your bottom lip out :lol: when we pulled it apart. I reused them the second time too. ](*,)
it was a really soft set of seals and I switched to a firmer set that I had from another seal kit. Mine are the big thick early ones.
My oil pump is a stock 26mm one too.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 1:47 pm

Tommy, if you want, I can look tonight or tomorrow, as I think I remember seeing a late oil cooler in my stuff (have so much I forget what I have :roll: ). If I do, it is yours for the taking.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:19 pm

Mine was on a VW Fox, (water cooled) and it ran down the back of the head, and onto the bell housing.

Clean everything very good. Get it completely dry of oil. Then start the engine, and watch it very closely at idle.
Even use some talcum power in the area you are suspicious of.
They even make a die you can put in your oil.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 3:51 pm

So I got lazy and just took it back to the mechanic (I've lost my "garage" and don't feel like working on it in a parking lot). He said that the cooler itself was leaking probably due to a crack and that the gap between the cooler and the case was sealed properly.

What's funny is that I had the cooler pressure tested about 2 months ago and it tested fine. Anywho, he's looking for another one. I'm quietly please that the leak wasn't due to my installation :)

p.s. thanks for the offer though adriel, I'll see if the mechanic has trouble finding one.

Mon Jul 12, 2010 5:22 pm

TommyBoyGomes wrote: So I got lazy and just took it back to the mechanic (I've lost my "garage" and don't feel like working on it in a parking lot). He said that the cooler itself was leaking probably due to a crack and that the gap between the cooler and the case was sealed properly.

What's funny is that I had the cooler pressure tested about 2 months ago and it tested fine. Anywho, he's looking for another one. I'm quietly please that the leak wasn't due to my installation :)

p.s. thanks for the offer though adriel, I'll see if the mechanic has trouble finding one.

I am going to look: cannot beat free! :wink: :lol:

Edit: Tommy, memory fails me again: I found it, but it is an early cooler. Still up for the taking if you need it/want it. Currently it is in my bedroom, just do not tell Oma. :-S :wink: :lol:

Thu Jul 15, 2010 12:54 pm

You know what I was thinking about today guys?

I've heard of alot of type-3 oil coolers cracking and leaking in the past few years. I understand that alot of these coolers are 40 years old and all, but could there be a possibility that the foam we put on the top of the cooler is adding downwards force on the end of the cooler under the tin as the tin is screwed down over the cooler? I know over time this foam compresses over time and what not, but the added leverage of putting any downwards force on the end of the oil cooler will add strain to the area of the cooler near the studs. Does anyone else think this contributes to the frequent cracking and leaking on these units? Or is it the case that VW used foam out of the factory?

Just lettin my brain run wild (which isn't always a good thing) :)

Thu Jul 15, 2010 2:24 pm

I use foam on mine, and have not had a problem.

This engine has about 100K miles on it, and it is still pretty dry.

Thu Jul 15, 2010 3:07 pm

VW used foam on the T1's from the factory...I am not sure about the T3, but I would imagine it was the same. I don't have a T3 Bentley to peek at yet, sorry.

Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:06 pm

That engine you see has the original factory foam.
I think. It has been 100K miles since I had that engine apart last time.

Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:45 pm

It's with great pleasure that I can announce to everyone that I drove my home from the mechanic today and didn't see any oil spewed all over the engine! In fact, the other leak he had found near the relief valve screw was solved simply by tightening the valve screw a bit (apparantly I hadn't tightened it down tightly enough).

And by the way, it drove REALLY well on the way home. The mechanic had dialed in the carbs a bit more and man it really zips. No backfiring, no stuttering, no running rich or lean, nothing seems wrong (famous last words right?). The outer heads seems to be running consistently at about 150F, which I know is alot lower than the true temp. I connected the thermocouple to the top of the head stud and ran another nut down on top of it. This will then pick up the heat induced on the head stud and nut, which is fine because I really only need a relative temp. If it goes up to 170, I'll know it's getting warm.

SO, I thought I'd write up a bit of a post-mortem report on the whole engine rebuild process now that it's "complete"...

First things first, the sincerest THANK YOU'S to everyone who helped provide information and guidence throughout my build. Especially Russ, Don (especially for the loan of the tools), Joe, Max, Ray, Tram, Mike, Adriel, Bob(s), and the ISP boys for answering lots of questions for free (although I did spend alot of dough there too :) ). If I forgot to mention you, I'm sorry, but I did appreciate your help

In hindsight, I'd have to say the following about the whole experience... The building process itself, and by this I mean actually turning nuts and bolts, was a ton of fun. But any engine build can be soured by a number of factors... The biggest problems I endured were a result of vendors' screw-ups. Either they'd send the wrong part, sell you crap that was wrong or for a bug and tell you it was for a type 3, then waiting for all the parts to arrive via mail order only to realize they were wrong. The worst part of the process for me was setting the endplay and going through 4 different vendors trying to get a .010 shim before one (air-cooled.net) finally sent one that actually measured .010". But I guess in a way, it's the nature of rebuilding a type3... you just have to deal with your parts not being available and you have to deal with vendors who probably don't know what parts are right for you.

If I had to give any advice to first time builders, it would be:

1. Double the amount of money you think you'll spend on the engine. I admit I was going for a "done-right" engine with quality parts; I didn't cheap out on any empi stuff (with the exception of the fuel-pump block off). I probably spent about 3500 total on the rebuild, but that included ported heads, brand new rebuilt dellorto 36 DRLA's, and all tools. Oh that brings me to a good point, consider that you will need many specialty tools if you've never worked on a VW before. Things can be done without them, but having VW specific tools make the rebuild a ton easier and probably alot faster.
2. Triple the amount of time you think it will take you to do it, especially a type3. Be prepared to have to stop at any time and wait a week for a part or tool to be shipped to you. I expected this rebuild to take about 4 months of working on it during weekends only (which I thought was a generous amount). In reality, it took 8, but I began busting my butt on weeknights on it too during months 7 and 8.
3. If you're about to lose your garage space or have to work against a clock to complete the engine, don't even start it. This caused alot of stress for me.
4. Use the samba often for advice instead of guessing and doing it wrong. Or, have a helping hand who's a mechanic and is used to working on engines. It makes the process alot easier.
5. Use a rebuild guide book like the wilson, I can't imagine how I would have done all this using only a bentley.

So, here's the jenny-craig before and after...

BEFORE:

and AFTER:

Time for a beer! :)

Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:58 pm

=D> =D>
nice work Tommy!!!!! Knew you'd get it right in the end 8) Familienfest??

Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:35 am

Helping a young person to learn to do it right, is one of my joys left in life.
Glad you got it all back together and working properly.
Having the proper tools, and place to work makes the job a pleasure.

Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:06 am

TommyBoyGomes wrote: It's with great pleasure that I can announce to everyone that I drove my home from the mechanic today and didn't see any oil spewed all over the engine! In fact, the other leak he had found near the relief valve screw was solved simply by tightening the valve screw a bit (apparantly I hadn't tightened it down tightly enough).

And by the way, it drove REALLY well on the way home. The mechanic had dialed in the carbs a bit more and man it really zips. No backfiring, no stuttering, no running rich or lean, nothing seems wrong (famous last words right?). The outer heads seems to be running consistently at about 150F, which I know is alot lower than the true temp. I connected the thermocouple to the top of the head stud and ran another nut down on top of it. This will then pick up the heat induced on the head stud and nut, which is fine because I really only need a relative temp. If it goes up to 170, I'll know it's getting warm.

SO, I thought I'd write up a bit of a post-mortem report on the whole engine rebuild process now that it's "complete"...

First things first, the sincerest THANK YOU'S to everyone who helped provide information and guidence throughout my build. Especially Russ, Don (especially for the loan of the tools), Joe, Max, Ray, Tram, Adriel, Bob(s), and the ISP boys for answering lots of questions for free (although I did spend alot of dough there too :) ). If I forgot to mention you, I'm sorry, but I did appreciate your help

In hindsight, I'd have to say the following about the whole experience... The building process itself, and by this I mean actually turning nuts and bolts, was a ton of fun. But any engine build can be soured by a number of factors... The biggest problems I endured were a result of vendors' screw-ups. Either they'd send the wrong part, sell you crap that was wrong or for a bug and tell you it was for a type 3, then waiting for all the parts to arrive via mail order only to realize they were wrong. The worst part of the process for me was setting the endplay and going through 4 different vendors trying to get a .010 shim before one (air-cooled.net) finally sent one that actually measured .010". But I guess in a way, it's the nature of rebuilding a type3... you just have to deal with your parts not being available and you have to deal with vendors who probably don't know what parts are right for you.

If I had to give any advice to first time builders, it would be:

1. Double the amount of money you think you'll spend on the engine. I admit I was going for a "done-right" engine with quality parts; I didn't cheap out on any empi stuff (with the exception of the fuel-pump block off). I probably spent about 3500 total on the rebuild, but that included ported heads, brand new rebuilt dellorto 36 DRLA's, and all tools. Oh that brings me to a good point, consider that you will need many specialty tools if you've never worked on a VW before. Things can be done without them, but having VW specific tools make the rebuild a ton easier and probably alot faster.
2. Triple the amount of time you think it will take you to do it, especially a type3. Be prepared to have to stop at any time and wait a week for a part or tool to be shipped to you. I expected this rebuild to take about 4 months of working on it during weekends only (which I thought was a generous amount). In reality, it took 8, but I began busting my butt on weeknights on it too during months 7 and 8.
3. If you're about to lose your garage space or have to work against a clock to complete the engine, don't even start it. This caused alot of stress for me.
4. Use the samba often for advice instead of guessing and doing it wrong. Or, have a helping hand who's a mechanic and is used to working on engines. It makes the process alot easier.
5. Use a rebuild guide book like the wilson, I can't imagine how I would have done all this using only a bentley.

So, here's the jenny-craig before and after...

BEFORE:

and AFTER:

Time for a beer! :)

The Only thing it needs is a polished out generator? :twisted:

Wed Jul 21, 2010 8:31 am

And take that plastic piece out of the generator.
The cooling air needs as many places to escape as possible.
VW never used those on T-3's.

Wed Jul 21, 2010 10:27 am

Ohhh, that's purdy. 8)

Good work Tommy!

Max

Wed Jul 21, 2010 11:49 pm

familienfest eh? Heh, when/where is that again? I'll be debut-ing the new engine at the San Pedro VW summer jam show next saturday.

Btw, that "new" picture is a bit old, I added the main bolt in the fan shroud that goes through the breather stand. I've also added fuel lines of course :)

I never gave two thoughts to that plastic piece on the generator... I assume you're talking about the one nearest the oil cooler?

I know the generator is the blemish of the assembly, but I have plans to put a DDB alternator on it eventually so that I can run a stereo at some point.

Thanks for the congrats!

Thu Jul 22, 2010 5:53 pm

Russ Wolfe wrote: Helping a young person to learn to do it right, is one of my joys left in life.
Glad you got it all back together and working properly.
Having the proper tools, and place to work makes the job a pleasure.

Agreed. Air cooled VW engine builders are getting more and more scarce these days. And someone has to take over for us "older guys". :wink: It sure looks pretty though. Good job, and IF you're old enough, have a cold one on me. :D

Thu Sep 23, 2010 10:23 am

Wow, I have been reading this thread for the past few days and have been completely enthralled with the twists and turns of this process as I am about to head down this very road myself (I have a 68' square and a motor in very similar shape as the one Tommy started with). I am looking forward to the process, and the good news is I have a garage with no time restraints so I am good to go there. I hope that I can get my project done by April or May. With the help here on the Samba, I feel confident that I can get it done. This will be my first engine rebuild, and I must say having found this resource/community is a life saver. Many of my concerns and questions have already been answered just by reading this thread.

Congrats, Tommy! I can only hope to have as good of results as you had. Is everything still running strong for you?

Tue Nov 23, 2010 4:02 pm

D_Ross, thanks for the kind words. Let us know if you need a hand with your rebuild. Starting a thread that takes you through the process is a good way for all us T3 folks to keep an eye on your build and respond to your questions. Good luck!