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Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:18 pm

Thanks for the continued responses guys. I'll post some updated pics soon, including a picture of our engine stand "solution" :D .

The current problem is that I can't get the cylinders off of the case. The heads are off and there's nothing holding the cylinders on except the piston and whatever gunk buildup is around the base of it. Nevertheless I can't get any of them to budge. I've tried taping on them with a rubber and plastic mallet to loosen them up, but am having no luck.

Does anyone have any strategies for getting the cylinders off? I don't want to whack them too hard and risk bending or breaking the cooling fins. Thanks.

Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:32 pm

TommyBoyGomes wrote: Thanks for the continued responses guys. I'll post some updated pics soon, including a picture of our engine stand "solution" :D .

The current problem is that I can't get the cylinders off of the case. The heads are off and there's nothing holding the cylinders on except the piston and whatever gunk buildup is around the base of it. Nevertheless I can't get any of them to budge. I've tried taping on them with a rubber and plastic mallet to loosen them up, but am having no luck.

Does anyone have any strategies for getting the cylinders off? I don't want to whack them too hard and risk bending or breaking the cooling fins. Thanks.

They get stuck in the case, when the heads are torqued on. Just keep on wiggling and smacking is about all one can do. Not sure how one could get a pry tool in there and get leverage.

Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:36 pm

What ever you do, do not marr the case deck where they sit.
A set of piston/cyl. are a lot cheaper than a case.
Use a rubber hammer, and knock them up and down, and side to side, until they come loose. PB Blaster sprayed at the joint will help break up any varnish.

Fri Jan 01, 2010 5:57 pm

thanks adriel and russ, I'll keep... whacking... heh

Fri Jan 01, 2010 6:58 pm

Also remove the small square piece of tin under the cylinders. If you don't, it'll make both cyliders want to fight each other. Just a heads up.
Also, like Russ said, P&C's are cheap, and you've already got a problem with #4 cylinder anyway.

Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:19 pm

So I finally got the cylinders off, man what a PITA. It took almost 2 hours to bang them off, partly because I didn't want to hit them too hard and marr the case. I have to call it a night, but I'll tackle the pistons and splitting the case tomorrow probably.

Here are some pics in case anyone is curious...

What is kind of funny is that at the beginning of this process, I told myself that I wouldn't be cheap and would buy the right tools to get the job done right. Well... I've had to lapse a few times so far, but the worst transgression so far is our home-made engine stand adapter.

We bought this stand 10 years ago to rebuild a V8 ford, and of course we discovered that the arms were designed to hold a larger circumference engine. Therefore the mount arms couldn't be arranged in a small enough way to hold the vw case, hence the need for our home-made adapter plate :) . It holds it just fine, but I'll probably have to get a vw-specific stand eventually so that I can marry the two case halves together during assembly.

If there was any doubt that this was a GEX build, here is the official mark of the beast...

At least they still look like og vw heads that GEX just stamped their initials into (right?). What do the 57 and 62 numbers in the heads mean. What info can be gleaned from those serial numbers (i.e. 2BR, etc)?

Here's where I left it tonight. Not much left to do...

Bob, I didn't know I had anything wrong with my #4 cylinder, have you been communicating telepathically with my engine? :) (you thinking of someone else's by any chance?)

Fri Jan 01, 2010 9:25 pm

Ok Tommy next time just take my engine stand no matter what brudda. Damn I feel guilty now that you had to rig that up but hey pretty smart.
I am glad the Cylinders actually came off thought I would have to stop by and help you wrestle that beast.
Keep us updated and as before if you need help let me know I will come over and do what I can do.

Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

if you're going to get the engine stand adapter, get the one that they sell on ebay from a vendor here on TS. He has the NICE ones with really thick mounting ears and fully welded seams. The ones from EMPI are POS by comparison.

Sat Jan 02, 2010 9:16 am

TommyBoyGomes wrote:
Here's where I left it tonight. Not much left to do...

Bob, I didn't know I had anything wrong with my #4 cylinder, have you been communicating telepathically with my engine? :) (you thinking of someone else's by any chance?)

It must have been someone elses engine then. But looking at those pistons, it doesn't look like you would have hurt it any. :wink:

Oh yeah, nice improvisation on the engine stand. Sometimes you do what you've gotta do. :D

Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:03 pm

the 57 and 62 are just mold marks. It is the mold that they were cast from. Nothing to worry about there.
The BR in the corner is the clue tho. That is the Brazilian VW mark.
Check every thing with a micrometer on that engine. No telling what GEX put it together with.
I have found oversized valve guides, oversized pistons, undersized cranks, cases linebored 2.5mm oversized, with 2.5mm cut on the thrust bearing.
85.45mm or .46 should be standard pistons.

Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:59 pm

Well, I'm happy to announce that I dropped off the engine at the machine shop just now. Thanks everyone for your help, especially don for the loan of some tools. In the end, I wasn't able to actually split the case, that sucker was really held together. So, I'm having the machinist take care of it.

I did find a few slightly troubling things though as I went through the engine with the machinist. Funnily enough, he told me all the things about the heads that Russ just mentioned about the heads being brazilian etc. We noticed that one of the heads had small cracks next to the spark plugs, so it looks like I'll have to buy some new heads. He said he'll go through the case and let me know if it is reusable.

I asked him about balancing the fans Don and he didn't think that welding the fans together is really necessary, but he said he'd check them out to see if they are out of whack.

Anywho, thanks for your help guys and I'll keep the updates coming as I get the engine back and start putting it together. Cheers!

Sat Jan 02, 2010 7:22 pm

TommyBoyGomes wrote: Well, I'm happy to announce that I dropped off the engine at the machine shop just now. Thanks everyone for your help, especially don for the loan of some tools. In the end, I wasn't able to actually split the case, that sucker was really held together. So, I'm having the machinist take care of it.

I did find a few slightly troubling things though as I went through the engine with the machinist. Funnily enough, he told me all the things about the heads that Russ just mentioned about the heads being brazilian etc. We noticed that one of the heads had small cracks next to the spark plugs, so it looks like I'll have to buy some new heads. He said he'll go through the case and let me know if it is reusable.

I asked him about balancing the fans Don and he didn't think that welding the fans together is really necessary, but he said he'd check them out to see if they are out of whack.

Anywho, thanks for your help guys and I'll keep the updates coming as I get the engine back and start putting it together. Cheers!

In the future, you can take a brass hammer or a large mallet, and smack the case bolts while the other half is held by another. Oh, and check that you have all the bolts and nuts out. B.T.D.T. :roll: :lol:

If the spark plug hole has a crack, Russ can have it welded before he rebuilds them. Once all the spark plug hole work is done, they are better than new.

Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:00 am

Hey all,

So the machine shop has gone through my engine and has reported that my case is re-usable but that the heads are cracked worse than we had originally thought and will need to be replaced. I expected as much, so I'm fine with that. They recommend going with the new design brazillian VW heads which have better flow than the original german ones. Are these reliable and worthwhile or do I want to go with a ported 40/35 valves?

My questions for you are in regards to engine size. The engine is currently 1600 and I want this car to be more about reliability and daily-driver dependability than speed and power. If the engine can be a little more peppy without sacrificing any reliability, then that's fine by me. In general, I wouldn't go any bigger than a 1776 but will stick with 1600 if that's the most reliable.

I currently have dual Weber 34 ICT's on the engine and I would like to re-use them if possible (maybe get them rebuilt of course). The engine shop thinks that if I go up to 1776 that I should put on DCNF's. Is this a good idea if I go with a 1776 or can I re-use the 34's with re-jetting? The 1776 would require new cylinders along with the new DCNF carbs, so we're talking a little extra cost there, but it isn't back-breaking for my budget. Do you think that the 1776 with DCNF's will be worth it in the long run? How much does an average set of DCNF's and manifold go for?

Thanks guys, I'm gonna pull the trigger on this tomorrow, so all opinions are welcome!

Wed Jan 06, 2010 11:18 am

If you go 1776 with ICT's you can put on DCNF's Later if you want.

Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:48 pm

TommyBoyGomes wrote: Hey all,

So the machine shop has gone through my engine and has reported that my case is re-usable but that the heads are cracked worse than we had originally thought and will need to be replaced. I expected as much, so I'm fine with that. They recommend going with the new design brazillian VW heads which have better flow than the original german ones. Are these reliable and worthwhile or do I want to go with a ported 40/35 valves?

My questions for you are in regards to engine size. The engine is currently 1600 and I want this car to be more about reliability and daily-driver dependability than speed and power. If the engine can be a little more peppy without sacrificing any reliability, then that's fine by me. In general, I wouldn't go any bigger than a 1776 but will stick with 1600 if that's the most reliable.

I currently have dual Weber 34 ICT's on the engine and I would like to re-use them if possible (maybe get them rebuilt of course). The engine shop thinks that if I go up to 1776 that I should put on DCNF's. Is this a good idea if I go with a 1776 or can I re-use the 34's with re-jetting? The 1776 would require new cylinders along with the new DCNF carbs, so we're talking a little extra cost there, but it isn't back-breaking for my budget. Do you think that the 1776 with DCNF's will be worth it in the long run? How much does an average set of DCNF's and manifold go for?

Thanks guys, I'm gonna pull the trigger on this tomorrow, so all opinions are welcome!

If you are not going to go F.I. ever with this engine, then head over to the engine forum, and realize your options are almost limitless. :wink: They would know better about performance options, or at least come up with it sooner. I am fine with my 1600, but I am sure in the land of crazies, the extra power will come in handy.

I have set up ICTs, and I do not like them, especially the linkage. Chokes be nice to also have, so the cylinder walls are not washed with raw gasoline reducing the life of the engine. All carbs, especially Webers, need to have the jet sizes checked, and matched to the engine. Most times Webers are not right.

Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:55 pm

Mike Fisher wrote: If you go 1776 with ICT's you can put on DCNF's Later if you want.
Exactly!!!

Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:30 pm

TommyBoyGomes wrote: If there was any doubt that this was a GEX build, here is the official mark of the beast...

Nice and succinct summary phrase!

Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:04 pm

TommyBoyGomes wrote: Hey all,

So the machine shop has gone through my engine and has reported that my case is re-usable but that the heads are cracked worse than we had originally thought and will need to be replaced. I expected as much, so I'm fine with that. They recommend going with the new design brazillian VW heads which have better flow than the original german ones. Are these reliable and worthwhile or do I want to go with a ported 40/35 valves?

My questions for you are in regards to engine size. The engine is currently 1600 and I want this car to be more about reliability and daily-driver dependability than speed and power. If the engine can be a little more peppy without sacrificing any reliability, then that's fine by me. In general, I wouldn't go any bigger than a 1776 but will stick with 1600 if that's the most reliable.
Thanks guys, I'm gonna pull the trigger on this tomorrow, so all opinions are welcome!

Well, your old heads were Brazilian, as indicated by the cast BR under the GEX logo. They were 040 heads as indicated by the casting number in the center. Are these what the machinist recomends you using?
As for whether 1600 or 1776, that's up to you, but realize that the case and heads will have to be machined (opened up) for the larger cylinders (more money). A nice, well built, 1600 will run for at least 60Kmiles before the heads will need a valve job. A counter weight crank makes a nice addition to it as well, due to it helping eliminate some of the opposed 4's vibrations.
It's really your call, your money being spent. Build or have it built what you want.
Blankmange has a 1776 in his "late" Square with ICTs, and loves it. He did have to get a different set of air cleaners to help the engine breathe, but that was it.

Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:35 pm

Well guys, some fun news to share...

So after a few days of hemming and hawwing (sp?) over whether to keep the engine at 1600 or go to 1776, I've decided to go with the 1776. I was on the 1600 side for a while and thought to myself, "self, why not get a bit of extra horsepower for going over the 405 hill between L.A. and the valley?" So I'm going with the 1776.

I'm going with a 110 cam, 044 heads, the 911 rocker assembly and springs, but no counter-weighted crank (machine shop said it's probably not worth the money with a still relatively small engine size).

Because my Weber 34 ICT's won't cut it on a 1776 and I've heard that dellorto's are the way to go if you can find them, I've purchased a set of 36 DRLA's from a reputable ebay seller known for remanufacturing these carbs (alfa1750) and will likely be picking up a cb performance intake manifold kit to go along with it.

So, I guess I moved a bit away from stock, but 1776 still isn't really that big, so hopefully it will still be as reliable as a 1600 (fingers crossed) in many ways).

Thanks for your help in the past couple weeks guys, now I get to sit and wait for a bunch of parts to arrive :)

Sat Jan 09, 2010 1:55 pm

hit up DPR machine for an excellent counterweighted crank. It's only a few dollars more than a stock regrind and well worth the money, EVEN on a stock motor. for a 1776 it'd be sweet.