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Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:38 pm

I'm getting ready to collect the parts for a subie conversion (my third, but it's been a few years). what are peoples opinions on the "best" conversion parts these days?
I had good luck with the ref in Alemeda, is that still the best way?
has anyone installed the 2.0 trurbo engine with cali cert?
thanks all, Matt

Wed Jun 03, 2009 7:48 am

I suggest you join the subaruvanagon group on yahoo groups. (just google it). You'll get the latest updates.

Jp

Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:16 am

thanks for the suggestion as to yahoo's subigon group, I'm on there aready, since my first conversion, I just wanted to get some opinions here too.
Damn I miss my vanagon....

Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:31 am

you probably saw my post on the subarugroup, but just to make others aware

I went to the ref in San Jose a couple days ago. He said he will not pass any motor that is not a kit. I told him my van was kennedy compliant, he asked to see the sticker. I dont have one (yet). He said he also wants the installation parts list so he can verify them.

Then he said I could skip all that, and just go to any smog station with my Kennedy sticker.

Moral of the story, my interpretation, is that CARB is only accepting Kennedy conversions.. Im just a consumer, not an installer.. you might get different and more useful info from Smallcar

good fortune on your conversion
Jonathan

Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:03 am

I pieced mine together from different suppliers. I used KEP for the exhaust, oil pan, air intake stuff, and he was cool enough to hook me up with the sticker. I used Outback (Now Outfront?) for the adapter plate and clutch stuff. Tom Shiels did my harness and I used his reversed coolant manifold, thermostat housing mod and muffler bracket. I used Small Car for the stainless coolant pipe w/bleeder screw.
Very pleased with how everything came together and am going on 10K + trouble free miles.

Mike

Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:08 am

> am going on 10K + trouble free miles.

thats great

I was curious, how long ago did you go to a referee, 2 years ago?:-)

Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:15 am

Jon_slider wrote:
I was curious, how long ago did you go to a referee, 2 years ago?:-)
Yeah me, too.

I just brought home my donor SVX, yesterday.

I won't be hitting the BAR (pardon the pun) until Winter of 2011.

What "parts" list do they need?

Jon,
If all emissions and exhaust is coming from the donor and the donor was a Cali car.. then whats the hold up?

Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:17 am

Funny.....I did my conversion with a year left on my plate tags so I didn't get it smogged right away. I put it off and put it off sort of loathing the day I would have to face the music. I waited until the week my tags expired to finally get it done. I knew it would pass fine, I just didn't want to deal with explaining to the smog guy about the suby conversion and the suby being ok with CARB, etc.....
So I took it to the guy down the street and didn't say a word. I just watched his face. He finally says "hey, this is not a VW". So, I told him about the conversion. He asked if it had a CARB sticker, and I said no, but it did have the KEP sticker which says its OK. I also had printed out the Suby info from the CARB web site. He photo copied it, and then proceeded to smog it. I was in and out in 20 minutes.

Whew! Hope it goes as smooth 2 years from now.....

Mike

Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:10 pm

> What "parts" list do they need?

the "installation manual" (their words not mine), which details the Kennedy "kit" items installed on the Van... so they can use it as a checklist (I dont have my Kennedy paperwork in front of me, but from memory the following Kennedy parts are required:
engine carrier
adapter
flywheel
header
cat
muffler
and the Vanagon charcoal cannister plumbing, not subaru cannister..

codes 33, and 51 or 52 are OK, code 33 goes away with a VSS, 51 or 52 is the netural switch on a manual or auto tranny, it does not light the CEL light

Im hoping that if I just go to a smog station and skip the CARB altogether, nobody will need to check my kennedy parts list, nor my CEL codes.. I will report next week when I go to a smog station with my Kennedy sticker.

It appears from my lay persons inexperienced vantage point (get a second opinion from a pro), that cali is trying to limit subaru conversions to Kennedy types, as they are also moving to require OBD II sensors in the Vanagon gas tank.. essentially preventing any more 2.5 conversions

> If all emissions and exhaust is coming from the donor and the donor was a Cali car.. then whats the hold up?

What my CARB ref told me is Im supposed to have all the Kennedy "kit" parts. CARB told me if I dont have a Kennedy kit, the conversion is illegal.. They also said once I get a Kennedy sticker, I dont need to use CARB at all

Im just reporting my CARB experience, I would hope Smallcar has better information for do it yourselfers and non kennedy conversions. And all this hoopla may be avoided by changing refs, I dont know.. since Im kennedy compliant, I dont plan to go back to CARB at all

Im taking my kennedy sticker to a smog station next week, lets see if the CARB ref was right that the Kennedy sticker is all I need.. will report back..

ps
kennedy site, and executive order
http://www.kennedyeng.com/sub_van.htm and
http://arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/eo/D-428.pdf

Thu Jun 04, 2009 10:36 am

Jon_slider wrote:
It appears from my lay persons inexperienced vantage point (get a second opinion from a pro), that cali is trying to limit subaru conversions to Kennedy types, as they are also moving to require OBD II sensors in the Vanagon gas tank.. essentially preventing any more 2.5 conversions

I am not following..
The OBDII is the engine that requires the gas tank sendors. The 2.5 is an ODBII system, No?
If I understand.. conventional wisdom is that BAR will NOT pass OBDII engines (2.5, turbo, 3.0, etc).. or that no one has really worked the kinks out and/or is willing to be the guinea pig on wokring the gas tank sender issues out.

OBD1 engines (2.2 and 3.3) should still pass BAR if installed properly.
(I am not stating that as fact.. only as "conventional wisdom")

I am hoping to hell this is still the case since.. I have a new-to-me SVX in front of my house with a blown tranny that spews a quart of ATF just to move one car length.

Sure is a nice car otherwise.. but a tranny repair to unload the car is at least $1500.
Quote:
> If all emissions and exhaust is coming from the donor and the donor was a Cali car.. then whats the hold up?

What my CARB ref told me is Im supposed to have all the Kennedy "kit" parts. CARB told me if I dont have a Kennedy kit, the conversion is illegal.. They also said once I get a Kennedy sticker, I dont need to use CARB at all

Im just reporting my CARB experience, I would hope Smallcar has better information for do it yourselfers and non kennedy conversions. And all this hoopla may be avoided by changing refs, I dont know.. since Im kennedy compliant, I dont plan to go back to CARB at all

Im taking my kennedy sticker to a smog station next week, lets see if the CARB ref was right that the Kennedy sticker is all I need.. will report back..

I am hoping to hell (yet again) that the reason the ref went down this road with you is because you had the KEP certification. Logically, if you are trying to pass a KEP certified kit.. you should have ALL the KEP pieces in place.. or else KEP would get in some trouble.. No?

I am still not seeing why a properly installed non-KEP engine and emissions system could not pass the BAR process.
There are dozens of non-KEP BAR approved Vanagons running around in CA.. If the BAR is moving the bar on us.. I'd sure like to see documnetaiton of it.
I have perused thier site (CARB) but have not fouind anything among the literally thousands of pdfs they have linked...

Someone.. PLEASE!!
Tell me I am not wasting thousands of dollars on spiffy SVX stuff just to run into some BAR ref's bad hair day!

I welcome ANYone's account of passing BAR with a non-KEP swap. The more recent the encounter the better.

Anyone?
Beuhller?

Thu Jun 04, 2009 3:51 pm

I got a sticker this year from a referee with a NON kennedy kit- EJ22. Jon's speculations are misguided. OBD II is a no go in CA for reasons due to it's complexity and something about needing the donor running gear(tranny and full exhaust). There is a svxvanagon yahoo group and a subaruvanagon yahoo group where people with experience with that particular motor can help you. BTW the SVX was available in both OBD I and OBD II depending on year. Good luck.

Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:27 pm

syncrodoka wrote: I got a sticker this year from a referee with a NON kennedy kit- EJ22. Jon's speculations are misguided. OBD II is a no go in CA for reasons due to it's complexity and something about needing the donor running gear(tranny and full exhaust). There is a svxvanagon yahoo group and a subaruvanagon yahoo group where people with experience with that particular motor can help you. BTW the SVX was available in both OBD I and OBD II depending on year. Good luck.
Thanks.
I am on the SVXvanagon list.. but need to check out ore on the subaruvanagon list.
But it still raises the hair on my neck when I read info like that above from Jon... that some ref says something that isn't in line with what I undertsand to be the case.

Thu Jun 04, 2009 5:59 pm

> I am hoping to hell (yet again) that the reason the ref went down this road with you is because you had the KEP certification. Logically, if you are trying to pass a KEP certified kit.. you should have ALL the KEP pieces in place.. or else KEP would get in some trouble.. No?

> I am still not seeing why a properly installed non-KEP engine and emissions system could not pass the BAR process.

sorry for my misguided speculation

it is clear that syncrodoka has experience that puts to rest my ass u me umption.. sorry for the chaos and confusion

I was on a Kennedy kit path with the ref, I was not answering the ref's questions correctly to go the way syncrodoka did.. I hope he gives us more details..

I think its related to this:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=179572
section 27156
(h) This section shall not apply to an alteration, modification,
or modifying device, apparatus, or mechanism found by resolution of
the State Air Resources Board to do either of the following:
(1) Not to reduce the effectiveness of any required motor vehicle
pollution control device.
(2) To result in emissions from any such modified or altered
vehicle which are at levels which comply with existing state or
federal standards for that model year of the vehicle being modified
or converted.

--
so syncrodoka, when you can, please elaborate how one gets the ref to pass a non kennedy install..

and lastly, yes, OBDII subaru 2.5's are now required to have fuel tank sensors afaik, whereas some people passed CARB in the past with OBDII 2.5's before new rules came into effect

Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:55 pm

syncrodoka wrote: BTW the SVX was available in both OBD I and OBD II depending on year. Good luck.
'94 SVX was OBD I and '95 SVX was OBDII.. or so say the gurus.. Apparantly some later '94s *might* have been OBDII.. but I have not seen one. Have just heard speculation on that later 94 yr models vary.

And Thanks... (in bold)!..
Sounds like I'm gonna need it. :lol:

Fri Jun 05, 2009 4:32 pm

BusLab in Berkeley told me that all you really need is the Kennedy cat/exhaust so you will have the sticker. At least this is how I interpreted their evaluation. I'm bringing my van to them on the 16th (yes, they are that busy) so I'll know more then.

They do EJ22 conversions...so they should know. We'll see what happens.

Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:08 pm

I passed Smog today in California, with no CARB sticker on my Canadian 86 Syncro Westy with Subaru 2.2 motor, previously registered in New Mexico.

I did not have to show the VOA certificate of compliance that allowed the Van to be registered in the USA. I am not the original importer, that person Did have to show the VOA letter to get registered in New Mexico when the vehicle was imported.

I went to a smog shop, told them my Subaru motor was covered by executive order D-428-1. I showed them my copy of the order because their BAR computers were down..

The smog shop did not pay any notice to my Kennedy sticker, I could have tested without it just on my say so, that I have a motor exempted by the Kennedy Executive order.

I then went to DMV with my front windows rolled down (they are Limo Tinted), got my registration.

Im now officially a smogged Californian.. I have Limo tinted windows including driver and passenger front. The smog shop had no way to know what Cat and Muffler I was using, neither of which happen to be Kennedy units..

Moral of the story, I passed a 2.2 Subaru Conversion in Cali with no CARB sticker, and though I had the Kennedy sticker, I did not need it..

its over!
JonSmogless