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Fri Jun 19, 2009 8:34 am

I've got a good '71 only Bus front tin right here, pm me if you're interested.

Fri Jun 19, 2009 9:16 am

VDubTech wrote: I've got a good '71 only Bus front tin right here, pm me if you're interested.

Riguy, you better snag that one quick before someone else does :wink:

Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:02 am

Wouldnt i need one for a 1970 though?

Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:26 am

You need one if you have the doghouse cooler

Sat Oct 03, 2009 6:11 pm

So its been a long time since i have posted or worked on bilbo mainly due to the fact that i got a full time job during the summer and went on 2 month long vacations...but here has what i have been up to lately.

To pull the engine i followed everything that the Bently book told me to do and didnt come across any major problems throughout the whole process.

Once i disconnected everything and was ready to pull and drop the engine, i realized that the oil screen cover plate was the same size as my jacks lift plate. I didnt want to drop the engine and damage any part of it, so i had to think of something else...has this happened to anyone?

So i heard of people making engine adapters, so that they have a wide and stable surface to put their engine on. I was thinking of making one out of wood but didnt really know how...Does anyone know of a good post showing you how to make one?
Instead i decided to find a motorcycle lift to drop the engine and found a basically brand new one that the guy used twice on craigslist for only $75.
I thought it was a good deal since i plan to always own a VW and maybe a motorcycle or two down the road 8)
Heres the lift I bought as you can tell from the picture that it supports and stabilizes the whole motor quite well..

The engine is out and my first motor pull was a success!

Some pictures of the bell housing and engine compartment after the engine was taken away..

You guys see anything wrong or that is missing? Any input would be appreciated.
Heres some pictures of the whole unit after i rolled it into my garage. Please tell me anything that you see that is not original because i want to get this bus running like it would have out of the dealership :)
Front View:

Zoom in..

Left Side:

Right Side:

Back:

Back Right:

Back Left:

Clutch:

Hope i didn't bombard you guys with to many pictures. :wink: I thought the more pictures i had the more input i would hopefully get back from The Samba members.
I am going to start to pull off the tin and sort that out after i give the engine an overall cleaning. Any other things i should do?? because i am plan on getting a new generator/regulator, rebuilt carb, and maybe a new distributor as well. I will soon put together a list with all the parts that i need and send out an order, so that i can get this bad boy back on the road.. :) Please leave me as much feedback as you can, as this is my only way of getting expert advice on this awesome vehicle. Thanks :D

Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:16 pm

One thing: make sure there's a rubber grommet where the fuel line passes through the front tin, otherwise you can wear a groove in the line and empty your fuel tank onto a hot exhaust...

On mine, the hard fuel line passes between the intake manifold and the fan housing. Keeps it away from the spark plug wires, making the plugs easier to replace.

Don't see the throttle wire guide tube which passes through the fan housing and front tin. Is it missing? without it, feeding the throttle cable through is a pain.

Sat Oct 03, 2009 7:21 pm

You may benefit from installing an OE-style air cleaner, too. They seem to run better with them. Overall, that motor looks pretty clean.

Mitch

Sat Oct 03, 2009 8:22 pm

Why remove the stock air cleaner if it was complete?

If you're going to use an aftermarket air cleaner, at least get one that allows you to run a breather hose to it, like I have:

Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:15 am

dubluvv wrote: You may benefit from installing an OE-style air cleaner, too. They seem to run better with them. Overall, that motor looks pretty clean.

I already have one of the OG oil bath cleaners, but i have just put this cheap air cleaner on to keep stuff out of the carb.

Sun Oct 04, 2009 2:21 am

telford dorr wrote: On mine, the hard fuel line passes between the intake manifold and the fan housing. Keeps it away from the spark plug wires, making the plugs easier to replace.
Don't see the throttle wire guide tube which passes through the fan housing and front tin. Is it missing? without it, feeding the throttle cable through is a pain.

I have never heard of anyone changing the way the fuel is hosed to the fuel pump...How did you custom fit the fuel line to the fuel tank exactly? Pictures??

Yeah the throttle wire guide is there if you look closely...its just sitting down inside the fan housing.

Sun Oct 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Um, what I'm saying is that the stock location for the hard fuel line, from the pump to the front tin, is close to the fan housing, right above the intake manifold and below the spark plug wires. On yours, someone re-routed it low around the outside of the intake manifold. Not a big deal, but if you want it stock (and out of the way), that's where it goes.

When you reinstall the engine, make sure that throttle wire tube passes all the way through the front tin (I assume you moved it for pictures.)

Mon Oct 05, 2009 8:19 pm

Today i had some time to work on the engine so i worked on getting it down to the engine core, so taking off the generator, carb and exhaust was in order.
I first took a look at the heat exchangers and this showed some major exhaust leaks in the system..there was no gaskets or clamps to keep the heat exchangers and muffler together..let alone air tight!
Is this because my heater boxes are too rusted to clamp onto the muffler??? I will take more pics of the each heater box, because they seem too rusted to use.
So i believe i need some OG heat exhangers in decent shape, anyone have any?
Heres the left side:

The right:

Looks like the tinfoil seal special from the PO. :shock:

The smaller heat exchangers or where the fresh air comes in from the fan shroud above cylinders 2 and 4, shown in these pictures:

Are these supposed to move around side to side?? My main heat exchangers also slide around..IS THIS NORMAL?

My mustache bar also had some tinfoil over this rusted area:

Do you think this is to much rust to use or is it fine?? cause i didnt notice it until today..

Also my mustache bar has only 2 bolts connected to the engine core when there is holes for 3 as you can see in this picture:

Remember that my engine code is AE 877557 so its a Bettle Case. So what is the difference between mounting a bettle engine compared to the bus engine??? Do you have to get some sort of an adapter, so that you can mount it in a bus? Or is it fine how it is? Can someone please explain/clarify for me please..

Here is my faulty generator:

What does this mean exactly??

These are how the brushes for the generator are supposed to look right??

Here is my stock exhaust:

The exhaust seems pretty solid and no rust through besides on the muffler. Do you guys think it would be wise to sandblast my exhaust and just get a new muffler?

Here is a picture with the engine case and most of the tin:

You really get to see how awesome this cooling system is once you get down to just the tin left over the engine case and i was excited to see that i have my OG flaps in place.

So later this week i plan to strip off the rest of my tin, get it down to the engine core so that i can re torque the heads/case, because its leaking some oil and start getting the parts that I need together on a list. Do you guys think this would be a good idea?

What other things do you need to make sure and check when you drop your engine?
Hope i didn't ask to many questions because i want ALL of your guys VDUB knowledge and opinions...so leave me a post :D

Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:47 am

Any oil other than Penz's...Mobil, Valvoline, Qakerstate, Castrol and put in a half quart of Lucas. The shop I work in uses Mobil 30 and always put in a half quart of Lucas.

Tue Oct 06, 2009 9:54 am

Quote: There was no gaskets or clamps to keep the heat exchangers and muffler together..let alone air tight!
Is this because my heater boxes are too rusted to clamp onto the muffler???
Yours are typical of a used muffler. As long as the lower pipe flanges on the muffler are in reasonable shape, you should be able to get a fairly tight exhaust system. Get an exhaust installation kit (or equiv. individual parts). Should have the following:
- heat exchanger to muffler doughnut packings and clamps.
- head to exhaust gaskets.
- wide band clamps which couple small rear exhaust heat exchangers to main heat exchangers.
- Exhaust to heat riser gaskets.

Quote: The smaller heat exchangers or where the fresh air comes in from the fan shroud above cylinders 2 and 4, shown in these pictures: Are these supposed to move around side to side?? My main heat exchangers also slide around..IS THIS NORMAL?
Not unusual, although they shouldn't be too loose. Slight movement OK. Loose and sloppy, not.

Quote: My mustache bar also had some tinfoil over this rusted area. Do you think this is to much rust to use or is it fine??
I'd repair or consider replacing that. It is what counteracts the engine torque, and what keeps the engine from falling out...

Quote: Also my mustache bar has only 2 bolts connected to the engine core when there is holes for 3 as you can see in this picture.
Remember that my engine code is AE 877557 so its a Beetle Case. So what is the difference between mounting a beetle engine compared to the bus engine???
Bus has the rear mount (mustache bar); bug has the rear of the tranny hard mounted, and the engine hangs off of it.

You want all three rear mount bolts there.

Quote: Do you have to get some sort of an adapter, so that you can mount it in a bus? Or is it fine how it is?
In a bus, you must have the rear mount. I personally won't use the oil pump supported adapters available - drilled and tapped rear case is infinitely better (if you can do it.)

Pull off the rear mount, grab a shot of the rear engine mount area and post it. Can better advise after seeing.

Quote: Here is my faulty generator: What does this mean exactly??
Looks to be a 30 amp generator. Was a new Bosch unit. I'd do whatever it took to reuse it. Don't exchange it for a 'rebuilt' if you can avoid it!

Quote: These are how the brushes for the generator are supposed to look right??
Pretty much. The longer, the better. Yours are a bit short. Once the brush gets so short that the hold-down spring reaches the brush support, the contact pressure stops, and the generator stops working. Being as how brushes are a pain to change with the engine installed, and trivial with it removed, and as brushes are cheap, I'd swap them out. Then take it to your local FLAPS and get them to test it. Take the wire harness and regulator too. Test it as a system.

Quote: The exhaust seems pretty solid and no rust through besides on the muffler. Do you guys think it would be wise to sandblast my exhaust and just get a new muffler?
I'd be cautious with the sandblasting - could do more damage than help.

Quote: i was excited to see that i have my OG flaps in place.
Good - they're important! Make sure the whole thermostat system is together and works.

Quote: So later this week i plan to strip off the rest of my tin, get it down to the engine core so that i can re torque the heads/case, because its leaking some oil and start getting the parts that I need together on a list.
Check for leakage from the seal behind the flywheel. These typically leak first. If you have a case seal leak, the only way to fix it properly is to split the cases and reseal. Typically, this isn't the source of oil leaks: more likely (1) flywheel seal, (2) push rod tube seals, (3) rocker cover gaskets, (4) oil drain plate gaskets / plug seal ring, (5) oil cooler seal rings, (6) cylinder to case sealer. Sometimes (7) oil pump cover and [8] front cam plug, but this is rare.
You need some big tools to replace the front flywheel seal. If you do replace it, make sure to not distort it at all while pressing it in - use a proper installation tool, not a hammer. Be sure to lube the contact area to the flywheel well so you don't ruin it when you first start the engine.

If it's heavy oil (90 wt), rear trans shaft seal, but this is obvious on inspection if it's bad. Yours looks OK.

Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:10 am

The best oil anyone can use is Ams Oil.
They got a headstart in synthetics years ago and nothing can compete (IMO)

I have a 1988 Peugeot and we had the head gaskets redone after the first 150k
The mechanic called my dad to come down to the shop to show him that the oil had kept the crosshatch marks on the metal (it usually wears away within the first few years of ownership)

The car is nearing 200k now with no signs of weakness.

For me its Ams Oil or nothing.

Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:19 pm

telford dorr wrote:
Yours are typical of a used muffler. As long as the lower pipe flanges on the muffler are in reasonable shape, you should be able to get a fairly tight exhaust system. Get an exhaust installation kit (or equiv. individual parts). Should have the following:
- heat exchanger to muffler doughnut packings and clamps.
- head to exhaust gaskets.
- wide band clamps which couple small rear exhaust heat exchangers to main heat exchangers.
- Exhaust to heat riser gaskets.
I plan on getting all of these listed above...i need to make a list of different parts i need.

telford dorr wrote: Looks to be a 30 amp generator. Was a new Bosch unit. I'd do whatever it took to reuse it. Don't exchange it for a 'rebuilt' if you can avoid it!

Is there anyone on this site that does generator rebuilds?

telford dorr wrote: I'd be cautious with the sandblasting - could do more damage than help.
Why is this? Just in case you blast through some metal?

telford dorr wrote: Good - they're important! Make sure the whole thermostat system is together and works.
Yeah i plan on doing a post later on how this works, because my engine didnt come with the thermometer or the little stand it sits on...looks like another thing added to my list 8)

telford dorr wrote: Check for leakage from the seal behind the flywheel. These typically leak first. If you have a case seal leak, the only way to fix it properly is to split the cases and reseal. Typically, this isn't the source of oil leaks: more likely (1) flywheel seal, (2) push rod tube seals, (3) rocker cover gaskets, (4) oil drain plate gaskets / plug seal ring, (5) oil cooler seal rings, (6) cylinder to case sealer. Sometimes (7) oil pump cover and [8] front cam plug, but this is rare.
You need some big tools to replace the front flywheel seal. If you do replace it, make sure to not distort it at all while pressing it in - use a proper installation tool, not a hammer. Be sure to lube the contact area to the flywheel well so you don't ruin it when you first start the engine.
If it's heavy oil (90 wt), rear trans shaft seal, but this is obvious on inspection if it's bad. Yours looks OK.
Yeah i had a little bit of engine oil in the transmission bell housing so it looks like i will need to take off the flywheel and replace the seal.
Thanks for the input Telford...anyone else :)

Wed Oct 07, 2009 4:31 am

If you have not taken of the fly wheel one thing you will want to do it to pull and push the fly wheel back and and forth to see how much play there is. I don't know what tools you have to measure the play. I don't remember how much play is the min and max in and out play. That will tell you is you have to crack the case and replace the front thrust bearing. I am sure someone here can tell you.

Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:42 am

Quote: i got a full time job during the summer and went on 2 month long vacations

Sounds like a good gig.

Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:14 pm

Quote: Why is this? Just in case you blast through some metal?
Yup.

Anything associated with the exhaust system deteriorates. Only variable is the rate.

The failure mode of the heater boxes is typically the sheet metal areas around the exhaust pipes: the more wear, the worse the vibration, leading to even more wear.

In practice, it seems that (unless you live in snow country) there is enough airflow through the heater boxes into the cab to keep it warm, even with normal wear. So unless it's either gonna be really cold, or the wear's really noticeable, I wouldn't put a whole lot of energy into the heater boxes. My worry is that sandblasting would accelerate the wear and shorten the remaining life of the boxes. It's a judgment call, and you're the guy on-site....

Front seal details: there are three (typically) circular shims behind the flywheel seal which control the crankshaft end-play. These are subject to wear and damage. Be cautious removing the old seal that you don't gouge them. As was previously said, check the end-play before flywheel removal (use a dial indicator). The spec is in the Bentley. If it's out of spec, mike the shims and adjust thickness as needed. Shims are available in various thicknesses. Be sure to recheck it after final flywheel assembly.

Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:03 am

-Check that the interior of the fuel tank is clean and rust free. If it needs attention now is the time. If you have noticed that when anyone mentions engine running problems the first advice usually is change the filter because of a crummy tank. It might be of no concern on yours but now is the time to find out.
-The only time you can replace the rear shift rod bushing is with the engine and trans out. Now is the time.
-Put in new clutch and throttle cables now.
-Replace the trans input shaft seal and clean, inspect and lube the clutch operating shaft.
-AE was used on bugs and also one of the originals on busses. A bus AE did have the 3 mounting holes. You have to have the 3 bolts. Carefully select the proper bolt lengths. The mustache bar supports the weight of the engine and trans. Get a good one. You have found out how heavy the engine is, but not the engine and trans.
-Service your CV's. Now is the easy time.
-Purchase a stock steel fuel line that routes around the end of the shroud like previously mentioned. They are pre-bent for VW upright engines. Pay attention to correct grommets.
-Put on new intake manifold boots.
-Like mentioned get the correct exhaust clamps. There is a wide band clamp that bridges the large gap between the H.E.'s and the little normal sloppy pre-heater boxes.
-Make sure the preheat tubes on the intake manifold are clean and not blocked.
-Forget about the Air Fuel Meter and CHT gauge. But be sure and install a pressure gauge and oil temp gauge. With the sender in the sump plate.
-Oil- Use petroleum and not syn. And change it frequently. Keep in mind that oils have gone thru a formulation change in the last few years. The ingredients that are needed for our old obsolete flat tapped engines engines have been removed due to those ingredients being harmful to everyone elses catalytic converters. There seem to be only 2 oils we can get here that are formulated for good cam and lifter lubrication. Brad Penn, expensive and hard to get. Also Valvoline racing oil. I've seen that at Checker Auto in the past but performance shops should have it. I still use Castrol but for the last couple years have also been using half a bottle of GM's E.O.S. to my engines 5-3/4 qt. capacity.
You can find endless oil discussion in the Oil sticky in the engines/performance forum. Keep in mind that those discussions are mostly concerning light bugs but some bus involvement also.
-10W-40 sounds like a good selection for you. I use 20W 50 here but it is a totally different climate.
-Your heads are the best. O.G. Better than later heads. Only thing questionable would be if GEX did a poor guide and valve job. Or did any wierd machining in the chambers. I much prefer quality rebuilt original German heads over later, Brazilian, or aftermarket heads.
-Can't tell for sure from your pics but it sure looks like the Hoover Bit is missing.
-You might find an auto electric shop in your area for a rebuild of your generator. Or you can do it. Cleaning, new brushes, bearings and armature cleanup.
-Sandblasting comes in different varities. Some can massively destroy and others just a nice cleaning. I get mine softly blasted and then use a good exhaust paint. H.E.'s and muffler.
-Your Haynes, if it is the British one, is good at times to use to suppliment the Bentley. That third one is good for entertainment.
-Spend time going throught the Bebtley's Maintenance/Lubrication section to really see where you bus should have had the correct attention.