TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:41 pm

You're outa' luck with buying on. You could go to any local fabrication or weld shop and have them make one. Someone with a little design skill could come up with a simple little bracket. Your other option would be the adapter that a lot of people use to adapt a bug engine. It's discussed a lot, do a search. The deal is that you have two case bosses that evidently are in the way for the adapter.

You say losing torque? Because of the mouting? No! not involved. The only thing involved is that your engine isn't mounted as securely as stock. It's not going to move unless something was to break which it probably won't. For info, if you have someone design a bracket, they should know the direction for forces involved that their bracket should take care of. The only torque force is straight down at the rear of the engine. No rotational forces.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:19 am

Quote: For info, if you have someone design a bracket, they should know the direction for forces involved that their bracket should take care of [agreed]. The only torque force is straight down at the rear of the engine. No rotational forces.
Um, not sure I would say that. Consider: on early bays (68-71), the engine is suspended at three points - either end of the mustache bar, and the front trans mount. There's no middle trans support, like pre-bays and later bays have. That front trans support isn't very wide (maybe 5 inches, into rubber?), so that would seem to leave the majority of the torque counteraction to the rear support bar...
Just a thought.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:15 pm

Sounds like you're thinking that there is torque produced as reaction to the action of the rotation of the crankshaft. Like a car with drive shaft going to the rear axle. But it's not that way. Engine and trans are one unit and reaction to crankshaft torque is contained within the engine/trans unit. On the other hand the output shafts from the trans are transmitting the torque thru the drive shafts to the wheels. The torque reaction to the action of the wheels is the engine/trans unit wanting to rotate around the axis that coincides with the driveshafts. When the drive wheels are turning forward the reaction is the engine want's to rotate backwards from the wheels. Which would be up at the trans nose and down at the rear of the engine.

If the unit was supported at the bell housing area like the late ones or some support block was centered under the center of the unit in an early one, and the front and rear mounts were removed it would be a mess. Put it in gear, let the clutch out and it would want to be like a Mississippi River paddle wheeler.
Forgetting about the weight involved, when it's driving, the trans nose mount is holding the front of the trans down and the rear engine mount is holding the engine up. The axis of rotation is crossways at the trans output shafts and not down the centerline of the bus.

A bug engine/trans is supported and somewhat balanced under the bellhousing parting line. It is somewhat tail heavy. And it has a front trans mount and that is it. The front trans mount is actually holding the front of the trans down versus supporting weight. But the real stress on that mount is is when driving and the torque is trying to lift the front of the trans. My bug has broken two of those mounts.

Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:03 am

OK, I stand corrected. Because of the engine-transmission combination, the torque reaction is only around the axles, thus the torque reaction is up/down at the front and rear mounts. Specifically, the rear mounts would see a increased down force as one accelerates (as opposed to a twisting action), and the front trans mount sees an upwards force.

Thus, a welded piece which couples the three existing holes in the mustache bar with the through-bolt in the rearmost lower engine case would be under tension (which is good), so it should be designed for that.

Thanks for the clarification.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:30 pm

mine only has two big bolts,can't find what to tourqe them to in the vw book,then 5 small bolts

Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:35 pm

What's that red thing underneath? It's nothing that an upright engine/ bay bus came with. And a stock engine mounting uses 3 bolts in the empty holes in your moustache bar.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:54 pm

you mean this?

not sure it mite be a case saver?my brother thought it was a trailer hitch

Mon Nov 16, 2009 9:01 pm

case saver?No trailer hitch No

Wow, now I've seen everything. :shock:

Mon Nov 16, 2009 10:51 pm

Well at least the oil pump studs werent used!!! I was about to ask where the fifth bolt attatched on the motor but now I see it, to the thermostat stud. Im not saying thats the best set up, but it is a whole new approach to an adapter and it widens the hold. Gonzobus, what size motor you have, how long have you run this setup and have the engine attatch points (all 5) wallowed out any?

Thu Nov 19, 2009 7:19 pm

lets see my engine is a 1600 dp bug engine,well since I got the bus three months ago,have not driven it much,no movement on the 5 bolts so far that i can see,this brace also rests on the bottom of the motor,and it sandwiches the mustash bar on both sides,with four big what look like nuts off of a u bolt for a Mack truck.

Fri Nov 20, 2009 7:35 am

you will be the coolest bus at college Bil(bo)!!!