TheSamba.com :: View topic - VW Brazilian Kombi bus for the Mexico market

Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:48 am

I have been interested in importing a Brazilian bus since I first learned they were still in production. For those of you who do not know, VW of Brazil has continued to make the bay window bus. Here is some info on this Brazilian bus; T2c

The T2c, so called since it got a slightly raised roof — by about 10 cm — in the early 1990s, was built for the South American and Central American markets.

Since 1995, the T2c has been built in Brazil with air-cooled engines for the Brazilian market and with the water-cooled 1.8 L 4 cyl. inline 90 bhp fuel injected engine for the Mexican market, the latter easily identified by their large, black-coloured, front-mounted radiators. Since production of the original Beetle was halted in late 2003 as a 2004 model, the T2 remained the only Volkswagen model with the traditional air-cooled, rear-mounted boxer engine when the Brazilian model shifted to water-cooled on December 23, 2005. There was a water-cooled Diesel version of the T2, which was manufactured from 1981 to 1985 in Brazil.
The shift to water-cooled engines is in response to Brazil's emission laws which go into effect for 2006 and beyond. The new water-cooled engine will run on petrol as well as alcohol, which costs about 50% less than ordinary fuel in Brazil. The engine is an EA-111 1.4 8v Total Flex. 1390 cc, 78 hp (58 kW) on petrol, and 80 hp (60 kW) when run on ethanol.

There has been much debate on whether these can legally be imported into the USA. The general consensus is that there is no way to legally import one of these kombis into the USA. Recently I came across a legally titled and registered 2001 Brazilian made kombi for the Mexican market. It has the water-cooled inline 4 cylinder Jetta engine. It had low millage and was very clean so I bought it. I brought it back to my home state with title in hand and was able to legally register and title it. I am not "exactly" sure how it got into the USA (I have the basic story and documentation but not all 100% of the details / logistics of this vehicle) but it is here and I have a legal title as a 2001 VW kombi in my name.

I thought I would share the infor to the VW guys here on The Samba because I know a lot of people would be interested in getting their hands on one. It is very modern feeling. The engine has 90 hp and you will not win a race with it but it is more powerful and confident than my 1978 with its stock engine in it. My Kombi also has AC that works and blows cold in the front and back and it does not suck the power out of the engine. Check out some photos

Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:53 am

That is awesome! I would love to see photos of the interior, engine, rear shot, side shot, etc.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:57 am

Congrats!! you will now enjoy true heat in winter time 8)

Sun Jul 05, 2009 12:09 pm

I need to take more pictures to show you all the details. It was all white when I got it and the first thing I did was have the lower half painted with the VW sage green. The all white was too boring for me and i have always like the sage green. I was thinking about painting the radiator grill in the front sage green as well but decided to leave it black for now. I will take some more photos and post them.

I have been driving it for about 3 days now and I can't get over the A/C and the power steering. It almost feels like a modern vehicle. I got pulled over 2 days ago because the tail light was out and after the officer looked at my registration and insurance he said "I did not realize these vans are still being made". I smiled and accepted my warning and promised to put a new light bulb in the tail light.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:17 pm

IIRC, any vehicle can be brought in and titled for one year by a foreign national. After one year the owner is supposed to show that either the vehicle has been removed from the country or destroyed. I have heard of several vehicles that have ended up in this country this way and illegally have been passed on to others, not that one is apt to be caught for doing so. However is ICE was looking for an excuse to throw the foreign national out of the country the vehicle sale could become an issue.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:23 pm

why they don't import them is strange. There is a market for them and they would sell.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:27 pm

SGKent wrote: why they don't import them is strange. There is a market for them and they would sell.

Agreed, but I have never understood VWofA marketing.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:30 pm

SGKent wrote: why they don't import them is strange. There is a market for them and they would sell.

wasnt it something about emissions and global warming? but i guess that doesnt apply to the watercooled ones.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:44 pm

SGKent wrote: why they don't import them is strange. There is a market for them and they would sell.
Why theydidn't import them is easy: They will not meet DOT specs for many aspects possibly including passive restraints, crash worthiness, etc.
And I got news for you: it's not in this country legally if it doesn't have an EPA and DOT sticker. It will be possible for US customs to seize it any time and make you export it or make it comply. No amount of time will ever change this.
However it is not real likely they will ever get onto you.
If you want to know more about this, contact a Registered Importer.
Jeff Schwaia from Autostadt West is one and also a Vanagon importer.
Good luck, but maybe you should not gloat?
Al

Sun Jul 05, 2009 1:46 pm

Wildthings wrote: SGKent wrote: why they don't import them is strange. There is a market for them and they would sell.

Agreed, but I have never understood VWofA marketing.
True. they had the world by the ass and lost it.
Doing better now, but I'll never buy a new car.
Al

Sun Jul 05, 2009 2:46 pm

pictures of the dash and engine please.

steve

Sun Jul 05, 2009 9:45 pm

Awesome Bus! I have heard of this gray market stuff before. I met a guy many years ago who legally titled and registered a Mexican Beetle, about 2000 (year), and he said the lady at the DMV desk just told him to register it with a "HOBBYIST" plate, which I have on my '76 Bus. But , how do they get from Mexico(or Brazil), all the way to Rustbelt, USA, and be DOT/ EPA compliant? How did he get it this far, if it does not meet the laws?
Seems the DMV people don't care if you made it to their office, but once there, they let it go. :-k

But I still want one!

Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:25 pm

I apologize if my posts came across as gloating. That certainly is not my intention. I have done a ton of research on this topic and thought that others would be interested in the bus and may appreciate the posts. I hope that it is not taken as bragging. Also if the vehicle was in any way illegal or even in question I certainly would not post it on a public forum or anywhere else.

I did not just jump into this purchase without my research. I had an expensive attorney check out all the legal aspects of this particular bus and all the laws for importation of a vehicle like this. For the most part is is not possible to legally import these cars. However this 1 is 100% legal and legit. I will explain:

It has an EPA and DOT sticker. The title can be legally transferred to anyone in the USA and is legal. The bus was originally brought into the country by a high ranking US government official and titled legally. I have wanted a brazilian bus for years and it is correct to say that there is nearly no way to legally bring one into the USA. However there is a little law/rule out there that is not even very well known or even heard of by most, that states once a vehicle has been officially allowed unrestricted importation into the USA for any reason, it is considered a legal vehicle just like any other vehicle from that point forward.

It is correct that an immigrant can legally bring a car into the USA but only for 1 year. This is considered a restricted importation and does not qualify for the above and must be destroyed or removed from the USA after the year. The issue is that in most cases no one can get a unrestricted approved import allowance. They do not give them out. However if a high up government employee for some reason is allowed to bring the car into the USA as unrestricted then the vehicle is legal for the life of the vehicle.

This is exactly how this vehicle was brought in to the USA. In my attorney's research he found that as the governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger has been allowed to bring in 1 car and only 1 car and if he ever sells it for any reason it will be legal for the next owner. Most people even familiar with importation laws have no idea that Schwazenegger was allowed to do this and I have even been told by attorneys that he was not allowed to import a vehicle, however in fact he was given permission for 1 car only. To give you an idea of how strict the government is; when Bill Gates and Jay Leno tried to import certain vehicles that are not considered legal cars in the USA they were rejected and could only bring the cars in as a show car and could never legally title the cars or legally drive the cars on public roads. It takes a high ranking government official that must get approved to import (a difficult task) a vehicle and then the vehicle gets sold down the road.

I have seen many Mexican Beetles in the country but most are not really legal vehicles. They are either chopped pans from an older beetle or have VINs switched. Both of these methods are currently illegal although the pan cut out used to be legal and was a loop hole, I think now it is technically illegal (I could be wrong on this point?)

The "net net" is that I was very lucky with this vehicle and it is 100% legal and I have a note on Government Letterhead stating its history. I had absolutely no issues getting the title and registration in my name for this vehicle.

Sun Jul 05, 2009 11:38 pm

Cool. I guess the high- ranking gubernment gig has its perks. Reminds me of communist Russia!
BTW- I have read stories about Mr. Gates wanting to import a Porsche 959 back in the day, which is of course not legal( he of course not being a high- ranking Gubernment official, but just only the richest freakin man IN said country) anyway, he even pursued the idea of purchasing a couple extra 959s to submit for crash testing! For whatever reason, it did not work out for him. I have seen, though a 959 , in person, in the museum at Mid America Motorworks, in Illinoise. Probably a high ranking Gubernment official, AGAIN! :wink:
Thanks for the info,jaredmarcucci! That is some fine paper shuffling to get a VERY nice Bus!
Please, MORE PICS!!

Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:12 am

Most wouldn't see any of your posts as "gloating". The only ones that do are jealous. Everyone should just be happy that another neat bus is on the road. It's not likely that we'd even get to see pictures of the things otherwise.

Please remember-no one likes a hater

Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:30 am

greenbus pilot wrote: Cool. I guess the high- ranking gubernment gig has its perks. Reminds me of communist Russia!
BTW- I have read stories about Mr. Gates wanting to import a Porsche 959 back in the day, which is of course not legal( he of course not being a high- ranking Gubernment official, but just only the richest freakin man IN said country) anyway, he even pursued the idea of purchasing a couple extra 959s to submit for crash testing! For whatever reason, it did not work out for him. I have seen, though a 959 , in person, in the museum at Mid America Motorworks, in Illinoise. Probably a high ranking Gubernment official, AGAIN! :wink:
Thanks for the info,jaredmarcucci! That is some fine paper shuffling to get a VERY nice Bus!
Please, MORE PICS!!
Here's the rest of that story. VERY close to what you said, BTW.
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20030915/FREE/309150701
Nice job on that by Canepa.
Al

Mon Jul 06, 2009 2:43 am

jaredmarcucci wrote: I apologize if my posts came across as gloating. That certainly is not my intention.
I actually didn't take it that way. I just thought that if you were able to slip it in under the radar of US Customs, perhaps you'd be better off not saying much.
I'd say you were extremely lucky. I know Overland brought in about 6 late 80's double cabs from Brazil back in about 1988. They brought them in containers and somewhat taken apart, then reassembled them and got titles somehow. (Without MCO's?) I think 1 or more might have been seized.
Having said all that, tell me more about the EPA and DOT stickers. Do they say something about "special exemption from State dept?" Generally they are specific to the model to the vehicle.
Anyway, NICE BUS! Thanks for sharing the pics. Actually, I'd be quite happy just finding the nose, grille and heater, to put a modern engine in my 69 double cab.
Al

Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:25 am

Check out the contour on the lower edge of that door...wonder if this contributes to the Brazilian seal fitment issues on earlier bays?

jaredmarcucci wrote:

Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:39 am

jaredmarcucci wrote: I am not "exactly" sure how it got into the USA (I have the basic story and documentation but not all 100% of the details / logistics of this vehicle) but it is here and I have a legal title as a 2001 VW kombi in my name.

Jeez, you sound pretty EXACT in your last post!

Mon Jul 06, 2009 10:30 am

69doublecab wrote: jaredmarcucci wrote: I apologize if my posts came across as gloating. That certainly is not my intention.

I'd say you were extremely lucky. I know Overland brought in about 6 late 80's double cabs from Brazil back in about 1988. They brought them in containers and somewhat taken apart, then reassembled them and got titles somehow.
Al
You know, I remember seeing 3 brand new Brazilian Busses, possibly double cab, I can't remember, for sale (?) at MoFoCo, in Milwaukee, around 1990-ish. I asked, they said they were brought in as parts, reassembled, and you cannot "legally" title or drive on the street. Now, I bet some enterprising person is driving at least one of those things around. They had a price of $30,000 each on them. Why would you pay that kind of cash and not be able to drive it to Dairy Queen? :?

I still want one. Just one. :roll: