TheSamba.com :: View topic - VW Brazilian Kombi bus for the Mexico market

Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:08 pm

Hi guys, I live in Brazil, and I just want to say, if any of you need parts from VW Kombi (BUS) I can find them for you here and ship to US.

Best Regards!

Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:18 am

igtoth wrote: Hi guys, I live in Brazil, and I just want to say, if any of you need parts from VW Kombi (BUS) I can find them for you here and ship to US.

Best Regards!

Hi IgToth,

I poked in on wikipedia on the newer ones: they are Total Flex vehicles, so that means they are equipped to handle gas / ethanol mixes a bit better.

In California, we now have (will increase inevitably) 10% ethanol at some stations.

What kind of aftermarket stuff is available off the shelf to make a Kombi "Total Flex"?

And what kind of ethanol ratios are you running into at most stations in Brazilia?

Any info, appreciated. :)

Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:33 am

kingfriday wrote: igtoth wrote: Hi guys, I live in Brazil, and I just want to say, if any of you need parts from VW Kombi (BUS) I can find them for you here and ship to US.

Best Regards!

Hi IgToth,

I poked in on wikipedia on the newer ones: they are Total Flex vehicles, so that means they are equipped to handle gas / ethanol mixes a bit better.

In California, we now have (will increase inevitably) 10% ethanol at some stations.

What kind of aftermarket stuff is available off the shelf to make a Kombi "Total Flex"?

And what kind of ethanol ratios are you running into at most stations in Brazilia?

Any info, appreciated. :)

Hi, yep, that is right, they can run in Gasoline or Alchool (or Ethanol, usually here in Brazil we say Alchool, but it is not the right term, the big fuel companys here are trying to change the consumer mind and they are now doing merchandising with Ethanol name instead Alchool), anyway, the manufacture company cars (like VW) not indicated to used both mixed, also studies about it by some universities says the Total-Flex vehicle waste more fuel than a reguler ones (onle Ethanol or ony Gasoline). But the truth is, the Gasoline in Brazil, by law is mixed by the distribution companies, 75% gasoline and 25% alchool, so, it is mixed anyway. Also, the gas milage using alchool is wrost than gasoline, so this helps to drop the price of the alchool(ethanol), once you run less miles with the same amount of fuel.
The price of the gasoline in Brazil, is fixed by the governament, today 02/22/10 is R$ 2.59 Brazilian Real (or US$ 1.36) which is very expensive once Brazil dont need to import any petrol, and the governament owns the only one company allowed to explore the petrol (which is called PETROBRAS, coincidence or not, the most profit company in the whole Latin America). Also the ethanol(alchool) today is R$ 1.99 (or US$ 1.00, very expensive) this price is not price per gallon, but price per liter, so it is US$ 4.89 for gasoline per gallon and US$ 3.6 for Ethanol per gallon. In average you can run 6km per liter with Ethanol and 10km per liter in Gasoline, or 13,5 miles per gallon in Ethanol and 20,5 miles per gallon in Gasoline (in a average car 1600cc engine). (NOTE: in Brazil is more common 1000cc cars and 1600cc cars, we dont have big ones like in US)
So, today is not worth to use Ethanol here, most people are using Gasoline.. but sometimes during the year the Ethanol price goes down (when they sticking to sugar cane) so price goes to R$ 0.89 or US$ 0.46 per litter (US$ 1.66 Gallon), and than people start to use Ethanol back instead of Gasoline. For the Ethanol industrie is more profit to produce and export Suggar from the cane instead of produce Ethanol from cane for the internal Brazilian market, so that is one more 'why' the Ethanol is so expensive here.
OK, back to the engine system: there is a fuel observation tecnology which auto-changes how much fuel the engine needs, so if you run in Ethanol, the engine will receive more fuel, if you run in Gasoline the engine will receive less fuel (that is one of the 'why's the gas milage is higher in Gasoline). Also, there is a 'second' fuel tank (a mini-tank) where you need to have like 1 gallon of Gasoline on it anytime (not ethanol ever)... so in cold places or in the morning (if you run in Ethanol only) the engine wont start if you have ony Ethanol in the main-tank. Ethanol needs engine warm to run 100%. so the at first minutes the system will use the gasoline from the mini-tank to run until the engines warms up and then it auto-changes to use the Ethanol from the main-tank. (is this makes sense?)
Now a days (since 2006), 100% of the Brazilian car prodution is Total-Flex (excluding the export ones), there are also cars already running with a 3rd fuel which is GNV (Gás Natual Veiculas, (Natural gas for vehicle). For example VW of Brazil sells a car called FOX, for the Brazilian market, this car dont have ABS, dont have Air-Bags and engine is 1000cc or 1600cc (total-flex).. the same car is exported to Europe, with ABS and air-bags and a 1200cc DIESEL engine. NOTE: in Brazil, the governament dont allow the companys to produce cars with DIESEL, excluding Pick-ups, Buses and Trucks, so regular cars are only Gasoline or Ethanol.
Brazilia is the capital of Brazil, it is far-way from my State which is Sao Paulo... the Sao Paulo state is the brazilian locomotive (the iron horse) of Brazil.. 50% of all federal taxes are generated by Sao Paulo state.. only the Sao Paulo capital, which has the same name Sao Paulo city... has 18 million people... the rates are 10-20% more-less depending of the state, but it is basicly the same for the whole country. Our president LULA (a convinced Communist, which was a worker in a car company "lathe-man", and has not even the high school, literally a dummy) is trying to get more close from Obama and USA to sell Ethanol, which will be more profit for PETROBRAS (not for Brazil) and price will go way up here, once is more profit to export today Suggar and tomorrow Ethanol than sell for the internal market.

if you need any further explanation please feel free to contact me!!

BTW.. I love USA!

Mon Feb 22, 2010 9:55 am

We have the same thing in the usa. I just got rid of a flex fuel dodge caravan. I've experienced the same results as above^^^

Gas=22 highway mpg 16 city mpg
E85 (ethanol)= 15 highway mpg 10 city mpg.

The dual fuel vehicles monitor the incoming fuel and adjust timing/fuel curves to make for seamless opperation. Dual fuels are always optimized for gasoline because you can't change compression ratio's electronically.

Ideally if you want decent milage from alcohol it'll be in an alchohol only car. One that has a set compression, ignition and fuel timing for achohol. The many compromises made to allow flex fuel technologies are the same that make it expensive to run.

Automakers won't make an alchohol only vehical due to the lack of availability of fuel.

It's a hot debate topic.

Not worthy of modding a bay to accept this though.

Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:03 am

Quote:
OK, back to the engine system: there is a fuel observation tecnology which auto-changes how much fuel the engine needs, so if you run in
<snip>
Now a days (since 2006), 100% of the Brazilian car prodution is Total-Flex (excluding the export ones),
BTW.. I love USA!

Thank you for the well-informed response with all the details. I have noticed that a lot of other countries have been far more progressive throughout the years with alternative fuels, and your country has been no exception.

Here in the USA - prices of gasoline are also fixed. It varies only a little bit between the cities and smaller towns. We even go to war in the middle east to insure cheap oil sometimes : )

Anyways, I am really interested in this fuel observation technology, and getting a working system on my Type IV engine over the next few years.

Ethanol mix will increase as oil runs out, and I would like to start even experimenting making my own moonshine (alcohol in Brazil) someday.

Here in the USA -- we used to make a lot of "moonshine" when alcohol was illegal a long time ago (called Prohibition here). Some of the old-timers still make it themselves in some of the mountains - it isn't incredibly difficult - but it is if you want to drink it - then you have to be careful in making it. If you use the wrong distillation equipment - you can drink yourself blind, like I did once! :)

Joking aside - let us know what you can dig up on this fuel observation tech that is available in Brazil - maybe someone will even sell it right here on thesamba someday.

I ran across some guy that was distilling his own alcohol for his vw bus on the web, but I forgot to bookmark it. I'll get to searchin'!

Obrigado!

Mon Feb 22, 2010 10:26 am

chazz79 wrote:
It's a hot debate topic.

Not worthy of modding a bay to accept this though.

Totally worth it!

Imagine the following scenario: It is the year 2040. The oil is all long gone, and you have been camping in your Bay Window for the last 30 years.

By this time, you are even rocking a wood burning stove in the bus, and ice fishing for food through a compartment in your floorboards.

Since fuel got so expensive over the decades, you resorted to towing around a little distillation setup behind you. Winters are slow moving anyways, but whenever wheat is harvested - you go and help out a fellow farmer. He gives you some grains and food, and then you put put put on your way. Bread and soda are super expensive, because hyperinflation is a real bitch sometimes.

If I am living that lifestyle by the time I turn 70, the newest "retirement" age - I will be laughing my ass off everyday.

Mon Feb 22, 2010 11:38 am

heh, heh, WOW.. :roll:

but then I have a few Turbo Diesels under the bench and Americans won't ever go w/o their freedom fries. :oops: so I'm good for your version of 2040 :idea:

Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:11 pm

if your talking about biodiesel you still need alcohol to make it and if it came down to having to make my own alcohol i think Id have a better use for a potato. :D

http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html

Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:36 pm

if it ever comes down to this I'll live in the bus and ride a bike wherever I need to go.

I've jokingly told my non-vw friends that when 2012 hits I'll still be trucking along in my bus. After the monkey outbreak virus hits I'll strap their dead bodies to the sides of the bus to increase it's floatation for all the river fording oppertunities I'll have when the polar icecaps melt.

And I thought I was a conspiracy theorist..

I'd sooner convert my bus to steam power as it's way more efficient than ethanol.
Heat up a vessel filled with water and edible materials (wich will be just as scarce come armagedon) or just boil water when travel is necessary.

Mon Feb 22, 2010 3:08 pm

English text about SFS (Software Fuel Sensor):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicle

BTW I read that: The Brazilian Volkswagen Polo E-Flex 2009 was the first flex fuel model without an auxiliary tank for cold start. I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT IT !!! I need to buy 2009 version, my 2007 is old!!! :(

PDF introduction from VW of Brazil about the SFS (portuguese):
http://www.volkswagen.com.br/pecas/noticias/pdf/203_treina.pdf

Mon Feb 22, 2010 4:50 pm

igtoth wrote: English text about SFS (Software Fuel Sensor):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicle

BTW I read that: The Brazilian Volkswagen Polo E-Flex 2009 was the first flex fuel model without an auxiliary tank for cold start. I HAD NO IDEA ABOUT IT !!! I need to buy 2009 version, my 2007 is old!!! :(

PDF introduction from VW of Brazil about the SFS (portuguese):
http://www.volkswagen.com.br/pecas/noticias/pdf/203_treina.pdf

Thanks again igtoth. Here in the USA we have the Biofuels act, and apparently are working hard to phase out fossil fuel consuming vehicles by 2016! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioFuels_Security_Act

That sounds ambitious. :wink: I wonder how we can adapt our old rides to these dramatic claims?

I am going to seriously take a closer look at how I can tune / adjust my setup properly to this stuff. I am already running GEX heads, which is bad enough for longevity! :(

Darnit all!

Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:19 am

igtoth wrote:

BTW.. I love USA!

.......... yeah, so do I.Thanks for the enlightenment about higher fuel prices than we (currently) have here, sometimes we really do have it better in some ways. :?

Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:37 am

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=890548

Wonder how hard it would be to get them registered?

Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:57 am

Hi folks,
new to this forum so Hello from the UK!

Just thought I'd post this link below, there is a large growing Brazilian scene in the UK now:

http://brazilianvwbay.forumotion.com/forum.htm

A few teething problems but a few companies now sell them and they are great. Will post a few pics of our bus Irene (2006 aircooled model) when I get the chance.

Denni

Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:13 pm

Irene, our T2