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Wed Aug 05, 2009 11:14 am

I have been lurking on the forums ever since i made the decision to dive into a baja bug back in May. Until recently it sat in my garage collecting more dust than it already had. I find myself having more and more questions as i start tearing into this thing and you guys seem to be full of answers. I jumped into this project knowing nothing more than what I had read on these forums. Im picking up ideas and hints as I go along from reading other peoples builds and scanning the forums for problems similar to mine.

My current goals for the project:

1. Safety - My 2 year old son will be occupying the rear seat in this. Naturally I wont be launching this thing or hitting any whoops with him in it but I also want to make sure its not going to fail under normal offroad conditions.

2. Suspension - I want to do a full coil over conversion with 10+ inches of travel all the way around. I dont want to sink a fortune into this but whats the fun of an offroad vehicle if you have to drive around the whoops?

3. Do it the right way and spend the least amount of money as possible.

4. Have the car in a driveable state by November. It would be a shame to spend Thanksgiving in Ocotillo without it.

My guess is this car has had at least 2 owners since becoming a baja. Some of the work seems to be done with some consideration for basic safety and function. Then my guess is the last owner took on this project with little experience and little guidance and ran with it. Im in the process of reversing several, if not most of his changes. The car has a 1641 motor (rebuilt last year i was told). But I was also told the carb was rebuilt and the car started weekly and im fairly certain that was a bit of a stretch of the truth.

I had forgotten to take pictures of the car until a friend reminded me so the only before pictures i have are the ones from the craigslist ad.

The car came with the trailer that it sits on which was a plus for me since one of my concerns about buying a baja was breaking it out in the middle of the desert and not being able to towbar it back to my house.

He had the seats mounted above the tunnels on the pan. The bar next to the seat prevented me from lowering the seat down into the pan and the bar behind the seat prevented me from moving the seat backwards. Now im not a tall guy (5' 11') but to get my foot on the clutch i had to manuever my knee in between the steering wheel and the cage bar in the front. Both bars have been removed and will be relocated.

One of the first things I notice when i get this home and start really inspecting it is that the frame head is bent. The passenger side is bent up and back.

Its my understanding that the 70 came with the BJ front end and this one has been converted to king pin. I have limited knowledge in this but am i correct assuming that the old frame head was cut off and a new frame head welded on to do the conversion? Is this the likely cause of the bent frame? Or is it more likely that this took a hit offroading and could use some more front end support? If this was a new head welded in does it look like its extended? This is the one and only bug i have seen in person taken apart so i have no comparison.

Some "custom" modifications to the beam supports that tie into the cage. Im not sure if this was bent with the beam in offroading. Or if it was modified to be longer to fit the bent frame. That is a piece of square rod about 3/8" welded to the bottom for support.

Is it just my imagination or did the PO make bumber brackets out of a reclining lawn chair?

The limit straps on the front are stretched tight as guitar strings.

I want to relocate my fuel cell from its original location behind the seats to the front. Obviously it would have to be moved to add room for my sons seat but I'm not at all fond of the idea of having a fuel cell inside with him in there. That limits my options to the stock location. My question is am I better off with a stock tank here or a fuel cell? Do the support beams typically used encroach on the stock tanks space?

This had all the original wiring not in use plus the rats nest the PO had made. Wire cutters and a few good tugs solved that problem.

I removed the bar where the yellow line is. It made for an interesting view of the speedo and switch panel. I plan to relocate this to where the green bar is running underneath the steering column.

This is where it starts to get scary. The rear shock mounts will have to be totally scrapped and some cage modifications made to mount them up correctly. Im not at all confident in my welding skills yet so I'm hesitant in making cage modifications that are involved in the function of the car.

Its a little hard to see in this picture but that weld is sitting up on top like a bead of silicone.

On this side he didnt even bother to knock of the wire stuck in the weld he just painted over it.

I am probably way off here and any input on the correct placement would be greatly appreciated but I am thinking I need to do something like these to fix the cage. I also do not have access to a bender :cry: The small bracket looking thing was where they had a removable crossbar before with a threaded end connected with a bolt. This is unusable for me since it occupies the space where my sons head should be.

This is max extension on the rear. I measured the angle on the axle right around 15*. Is this the max angle on what I can assume are stock cv's. I plan on replacing the arms and cv's and axles but If funds run dry I would like to know what i can do to get by.

Dimples in the rear cage from the bump stops. Is there something I can do to prevent this? Or should i move the stop to a new location?

He did give me a few spare parts. He said this engine is mostly complete but he had to borrow a few parts from it to complete his rebuild on the current one.

Any advice or suggestions with this build will be greatly appreciated. I'm going to try to make weekly updates but my time in the garage is fairly limited. If im lucky I have an hour a night which is enough time to sneak downstairs, crack a beer, cute a few pieces of metal, weld them in, then get back upstairs and hit the sack.

Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:19 pm

My advise would be to cut out the shock mounts inside the car and start over. Redo where the cage ties into the beam, ditch that front bumper. theres alot of good pictures on here of cage work to give you some ideas, other than that it looks like you have alotta work ahead of you so good luck.

Wed Aug 05, 2009 12:25 pm

Quote: I have limited knowledge in this but am i correct assuming that the old frame head was cut off and a new frame head welded on to do the conversion? Is this the likely cause of the bent frame? Or is it more likely that this took a hit offroading and could use some more front end support? If this was a new head welded in does it look like its extended?
Yes, it looks like a new frame head was welded on, and they couldve done a shitty job putin it on causeing it to be bent, but seeing the way the bumpstops have hit its prolly more likely that it was hit offroading cause it looks like they drove the hell of it, but i cant tell for sure from the pics.
It doesn't look extended to me but that could be cause of the pics to.

Thu Aug 06, 2009 2:32 am

I think this would be an exciting baja built thread.

Looking forward to see the progress of your project.

Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:04 am

are those 3x3's? or boxed in stocks?

if they are 3x3's you already have enough travel in the rear..

Thu Aug 06, 2009 6:15 am

this whole car is scary but looks to be a save, you'll need to start practicing and getting your welding skills up, you'll be buying a lot of tubing as well... start saving and spend wisely.

Thu Aug 06, 2009 7:36 am

Welcome. Like Ghiabateman said its time to practice your welding skills on all the metal you cut out of the Baja. The best part is you have a space to work so leveling out the pan and adding six" or so to the front end will be easy.
In order seats, harnesses, gearing and suspension are most important. Engine wise all you really need a a 1915 with a VZ 14 cam and a single IDA or Zenith carb. The more you can do yourself the better. Making your own wider front beam and tie rods are very easy and saves at least $300. As far as suspension, Blind Chicken racing has 6x6 arms at a great price and you should be able to find locally rebuilt or new axles from Empi or Autohausaz. Just step up to 4" arms it is easier to just cry once. Lee at Race shock in Phoenix should be able to set you up with some rebuilt shocks and coil overs if you are patient. Suspension seats and 5 points are a must. Give Pro Seatz a call. Scott does great work and the prices are similar to the Empi but his are 100% made in the USA. If you can find a known good IRS bus transaxle that is great. Otherwise a rebuilt 12 volt IRS with the normal upgrades, super diff and 1.70/1.30 third fourth gearing. Tires 700 15 or BFG 235 70 AT up front and 31x10.50 rear BFG ATs. If the budget is tight you can always build the frame to accommodate long travel but use the stock suspension. Good luck and enjoy.

Thu Aug 06, 2009 8:55 am

j5josher wrote: are those 3x3's? or boxed in stocks?

if they are 3x3's you already have enough travel in the rear..

I'll wave the newbie flag here and admit that I have no idea. My guess is that they are stock length as the rear end doesnt seem to have that wide stance that all the bugs on here have after 3x3's are installed. Is there a stock measurement/length I could compare it to?

I plan on ordering all the suspension upgrades for it towards the end of this month.

My shopping list includes

Rear:
3x3 Beanie Boy kit
Eagle Perf Coil Over conversion kit
14" FOA Coil Over w/reservoir 2.0 (is this sufficient or is 2.5 needed?)
12"/16" spring (not sure on rates yet)

Front:
Long Travel front beam. (Is eagle perf's that much better that it warrants almost double the price of the tweeds?)
10" Foa Coil Over w reservoir 2.0
12"/8" spring
HD Rack and Pinion and new tie rods
Tweeds 4" coil over arms.

Am I leaving out any critical parts? I've got a shipment of tubing due to arrive this weekend or early next week. I'm going to try to go down and hammer out a few hours on the welder with some scrap to prep for the cage mods.

Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:00 am

j5josher wrote: are those 3x3's? or boxed in stocks?

if they are 3x3's you already have enough travel in the rear..

the arms look stock, but modified. judging by the shape and the brake line tab, it was stock, but if you look about an inch outside of the spring plate you can see that something was cut and welded probably to move the bearing carrier back in an attempt at maybe a stock x 1" arm?

Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:50 am

looks like you have a lot of work ahead of you. it might be easier to cut it all out and redo the entire cage. you can do it the way you want and you know it will be safe. also the foa's for the rear, you might want to get 2.5 because there is a lot more weight back there (especially if the fuel cell is back there.) the eagle performance coil over kit is quality i do not know about the beam though. just remember with the beanie boy kit, almost all of it is made in china. you might want to consider doing it right and getting your moneys worth by buying some bcr arms and some sway away axles and german cv's and whatever else you need. anyway good luck and start practicing your welding. :D :D

Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:10 pm

Avoid the Chinese stuff at all costs. Go with longer arms in the rear. Get BCRs 6x6 rear arms. It is very easy to extend the rear engine mounts. There is no such thing as enough travel. Bajas are heavy and need all the suspension they can get. You might want to pick up a set of Tweeds combo spindles while you at it.

Mon Aug 24, 2009 12:50 pm

I haven't had a whole lot of time to work on this during the weekdays so my progress has been pretty slow.

When i cut the beam support tubes off the beam dropped down about 2" on the passenger side making it nearly level top to bottom. It was still slightly bent front to rear though.

Front beam off and ready to cut frame head

I used some 1/8" C-Channel as a kind of skeleton for the front tunnel. This made lining it up and measuring out the 6" extension pretty easy. I don't know if this makes it any more sturdy or not.

Tunnel extension completed. I'm still going to make a tubular front end but i didnt want to totally ditch the tunnel support so it will have both.

Totally cut out the old shock mounts. I was unable to remove his contraption without damaging the existing tubes so I sleeved some new ones in.

I was told my front and rear suspension parts will ship today so hopefully I have them by the end of this week.

Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:16 pm

Any updates?

Thu Aug 27, 2009 9:45 pm

Looking like a great build,

Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:50 pm

Started to tack the front end together this weekend. I'm still trying to figure out how im going to get all the supports in there and still have room for a gas tank.

Wed Sep 30, 2009 4:33 pm

Wow awesome front beam! I am looking to go to a similar setup on my sandrail. Did you order up the parts for it online? What shocks are you gonna run with that?

Wed Sep 30, 2009 11:27 pm

The car was rather rough to start. The front was obviously bent and perhaps not welded in straight. There was no where near enough triangulation on the front cage to support the kind of abuse they had been heaping on it. It should have lower frame rails from the beam to the rear torsion housing tied to the cage. There should be connections from the upper frame rails to the lower and diagonal between the uppers. Your design so far looks good.

You ask very sensible questions and your own comments on things like existing welds are very sensible. You will do fine. There are a bunch of Baja Bug guys who live fairly close to you on this forum and on Shop Talk Forums and Desert Rides who can help you out with tube benders and such.

Your parts choices so far appear very good for a newbie. The F-O-A shocks are the most cost effective choice, and one of the partners posts on here and on STF often as "MotoChris".

I'll watch the progress on this.

A final note: Us high desert offroaders know the "season" is 365 days long.

Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:29 am

Been awhile since i posted any updates. They come very slowly but steadily. I think I almost have the front end finished up.

I still need to make a bumper and I think im going to put a bit more tilt on the gas tank to get the filler neck higher so i can fill it all the way up. I'm going to weld in 2 more tubes from the top rails down to the tunnel once i get the tie rods connected and the steering shaft in place.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:13 am

Build looks good, but from your last pic are your tie rods gonna clear the tunnel. I had a similar problem and needed to raise the rack and pinion. Hopefully u dont have the same issue i had.

Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:40 am

I tried the mad dash to get it done before the family went to Stoddard on saturday. I didnt make it. 11pm rolled around and I had to put down the welder and fix the flat tires on my dirt bike so i would have some toys to play with.

The tie rods did clear, kind of. I had to negotiate the top of the tunnel with a BFH to make a little room. I might cut a small notch in the top later for some extra clearance. The only part that was actually hitting was the nuts on the back side of the tie rod.