TheSamba.com :: View topic - 3x3's make my baja look like a swing axle bug

Mon Aug 24, 2009 10:43 pm

i put 3x3's on my baja and now it looks like a swing axle baja, i notched my spring plates a little, i have loosened up the bolts on the spring plate to trailing arms and tried to make it change but with no luck, i just guess with taiwan trailing arms you get what you pay for, any one else have this problem

Mon Aug 24, 2009 11:04 pm

You have the arms on upside down. Swap sides.......

Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:47 am

yes... try swapping the arms from side to side, then go from there...
they should look like this when installed: note the angle on the springplate mount angles down towards the back of the car

Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:14 am

my son has the baja right now, he's useing it to get back and forth to work, i will tell you guys this, when i bought all the parts from CHIRCO to do the conversion it didnt come with instuctions, i called them and asked if it made a difference on which way the arms went on they said NOOOOOOOOOO, that pisses me off

Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:42 am

there is no difference. the arms are exactly the same before the spring plate mount is welded on. they are made in a single welding jig for both sides. as for the camber change they all have some if you run stock irs torsion.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:55 am

Others have had the same problem...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3296637#3296637

Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:02 pm

so lotrat are you saying its a waste of time to take the trailing arms off and switch sides, i drew a couple pics on a piece of paper trying to figure out if it would change things or not, but since the baja is not at my house at the moment i was guessing on which way the angles would be, is the trailing arm bolt bracket level or does have a angle to it,

Tue Aug 25, 2009 4:08 pm

I've never messed with those kind of arms so I don't really know. I do know that the pivot bolts don't go in straight so I can understand why there is a right and left sidded arm.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:13 pm

Ive never messed with those either but it could be because the spring plate bolt holes are offset. If you look closely it looks like the arms would either raise up or lower depending on how its bolted to the spring plates. Does that sound right?

Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:15 pm

Nicksan wrote: Ive never messed with those either but it could be because the spring plate bolt holes are offset. If you look closely it looks like the arms would either raise up or lower depending on how its bolted to the spring plates. Does that sound right?

that could just be an illusion due to a greater amount of plate on what is supposed to be the top side of the arm.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 5:21 pm

Oh yea. Its hard to tell cuz I cannot see the bottom side of the arm,
I guess as long as the holes are centered on the arm then it wouldnt matter. They could be offset just a little bit and that could translate a shift down to the wheels.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 6:25 pm

your going to either need to lower the ride height, or partially cut off the pivot bushing tube. installl the arm and bend it to where you like it and weld it up, thats what i did, worked great.

Tue Aug 25, 2009 8:48 pm

hey vin you got a pic of what you did on the pivot bolt bracket, i cant leave it like this my tires wont last on the highway and it looks goofy, i remember talking to chirco , they told me to cut off the pivot bracket and weld after market ones on for like when you convert swing to irs, of course they tell me this after i have it all together, i might have to lower the ride height, but it looks cool lifted up, i could lower it then run 33's on the back with the racing fenders, its just a pain in the ass and more chedder out of my pocket which cuts into my beer money :evil:

Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:19 am

I do not know about aftermarket arms, but the stock trialing arms are different from side to side (besides the shock mount).

I have lowered a bug with stock IRS components severly and then swapped the arms side to side (cut off the shock mounts then welded them back on in respective positions) to drastically decrease the negative camber a lowered VW has.

Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:43 pm

twistedbug wrote: hey vin you got a pic of what you did on the pivot bolt bracket, i cant leave it like this my tires wont last on the highway and it looks goofy, i remember talking to chirco , they told me to cut off the pivot bracket and weld after market ones on for like when you convert swing to irs, of course they tell me this after i have it all together, i might have to lower the ride height, but it looks cool lifted up, i could lower it then run 33's on the back with the racing fenders, its just a pain in the ass and more chedder out of my pocket which cuts into my beer money :evil:

i really dont, sorry, they aare painted and on the car, you really wouldnt be able to tell anyway.

just cut the tube that the pivot bushing goes in almost off leave maybee 1/2 of weld on 1 side. install the arm and set it at ride height, then stick your level or angle finder on the drum or rotor, and just bend it till your at 0. if your using spring plates you may have to leave them off for now. tack weld it pretty good then take it off and weld it up. reinstall and check it again. i had 6 degrees camber and there was about a 1/16" gap at the bushing tube to get it at 0, it wont take much. the right side did move when i final welded it though, so its got aabout 1 degree camber, the left is perfect at 0. so that something to watch out for. so much easier than changing the angle of the pivot brackets.

Wed Aug 26, 2009 4:48 pm

you might check your toe setting also, im running coilovers, so im using the conversion heim plates, and i had almost 3/4" of toe out with no more adjustment, that is also another reason i had to cut the arms up and re-align.

Tue Sep 01, 2009 8:20 am

Make sure you have the two big washers on the pivot bolt in the right place. I can't remember which side they go on but I know you have to stack them together on one side or the other. When I put my arms on I thought I was supposed to put a washer on each side of the pivot and had a major camber issue. Took a lot of swearing to figure that one out.

Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:58 pm

My buddies had the same problems(concerns). When we were @ Appletree a couple weeks ago they explained the reason they sit like this is decrease the bind on the CV's throughout the travel stroke.

Tue Sep 01, 2009 5:32 pm

when they build the arms they keep the same camber setting that is on stock arms. when you raise the ride height is when you notice the camber change. if you put your 3x3s on and keep the ride height the same as a stock beetle, you would not have any excessive positive camber issues.

But yes, if you were to decrease the positive camber on the arms, at a ride height above stock, then you would be adding angle to the CVs without gaining any travel. but most guys like me, would give up that extra inch or so of travel for 0 camber at ride height rear end.

Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:15 am

Wheel_Works wrote: My buddies had the same problems(concerns). When we were @ Appletree a couple weeks ago they explained the reason they sit like this is decrease the bind on the CV's throughout the travel stroke.

What about the inner CV? ;-)

Making trailing arms w/ 0 camber is tricky simply due to the fact that a VW housing has .7 degrees of camber change per inch of wheel travel (Not a big deal for a stock bug, but bolt on 12" of travel and it becomes a sh1#load)
and people setup their cars so differently. One person with race preppe'd CV's setup to the max will have a different ride height than the guy using stock stuff biolted to a set of 3X3's.

Mass mfg's take the easy way out and build them w/ stock / or at least a common angle. It just makes $en$e to build them that way for that market. Arms are readily avail made to order that consider your ride height (with or without a static camber measurement). It takes planning on the builder's part to know what they want when they order them and the knowledge that goes with it.

edit ----> They cost more, and I realize not everyone has the mean$ to buy the better stuff all the time. It's my belief that it's far better to DRIVE your baja than spend your life building it. :-)

Zancat