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Sat Aug 29, 2009 8:05 am

I have noticed that my buggy when braking seems to like surge. It is hard to describe but you can feel the whole car kind of rock back and forth as it slows down. I am new to non power drum brakes so this might just be part of how they work but I figured I would ask just to see. FYI buggy has LP front end and swingaxle rear end wide 5 all around.

Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:03 am

Brake system should not be surging..... I would suggest checking for bent brake drum or if that is not obvious pull drums and check all the mechanical parts and hydraulics on all four wheels.... Also check the flex lines (rubber) between rigid lines where ever there is "motion" involved....

Dale

Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:53 am

Sounds like a warped drum to me... do you feel the surge in the car and at the brake pedal? If so, the drums will need to be turned (if within the service limits) or replaced with new ones.

Sat Aug 29, 2009 9:55 am

Drum brakes do not normally surge. Look at faces of drum where lugs attach for cracks, and or a crack in the braking surface. Impact may have created a problem. Definately want to do a good visual check.

Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:57 am

Pedal doesn't seem to surge, and it only does it when I am just about to stop. I can go from 50 to about 5-10 and I don't feel anything, and within the last few mph when slowing down I start to feel it.

Sat Aug 29, 2009 11:31 am

hate to steal your post but i have a question also. i just replaced all my brake parts and now with the new drums and pads the drums wont slid on. they are rubbing by a few mm. should i get the drums turned or should i sand the pads down and let them do the work on the drums since they are cheaper to replace than drums?

Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:04 pm

Old school method is get brake shoes "arced" to match drums.... But with adjusters backed all the way off, the should slip on.........

Dale

Sat Aug 29, 2009 2:47 pm

thanks for the info, never heard of getting the shoes "arced" how would i do that. the adjusters are backed all the way off and the hubs wont slid over. they are rubbing by a mm maybe. ive even moved them up and down to try to get them to go on and no luck. i think im just gonna sand them down enough to slip the hubs on. over time the pads should wear the hubs down and i shouldnt have this problem again.. would there being anything bad with doing that??

Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:01 pm

Well here is the next question. If I do need new drums, I know the ones up front have studs, no lug bolts only lug nut, so can I buy new drums with studs already in them or will I have to buy drums and have some studs pressed in them? Im not sure what the rear has, but it wouldn't take 5 minutes to check.

Also, I noticed most wheel stud kits are 14mm, but the original lug bolts in the wide 5 drums were 12mm right? So will the 14mm studs be ok clearance wise in the wide 5 drums. I am not sure on the size of the ones I have.

Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:20 pm

Here is a post I made concerning the studding of drums...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=208267&highlight=counter+bore

Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:33 am

clemsonteg wrote:

Also, I noticed most wheel stud kits are 14mm, but the original lug bolts in the wide 5 drums were 12mm right? So will the 14mm studs be ok clearance wise in the wide 5 drums. I am not sure on the size of the ones I have.

Putting studs into drums is very diverse subject.......

Yes 14 MM studs are what EMPI and a few others supply to VW enthusiasts....

However you do not have to go with 14 mm...... There is literally dozens of various stud sizes available out there..... Check in other markets like at Summit Racing and Jegs (Honda Civic studs are good 12mm size) ... Dorman products list about 20 different studs in the 12 and 14 mm range, also SAE sizes if you want something other than metric.....

https://www.dormanproducts.com/catalog/2006_hardware.htm

Metrics start on pages 160 of section 10....

https://www.dormanproducts.com/catalog/hardware2006/155-160_Sec10_Part5.pdf

Personally I would go with the Dorman # 610-254 series as its 12 mm and requires very small modification to threaded area in drum and leave room for size increase if the stud should ever self destruct....

IF you want good pricing on DORMAN products (studs and nuts) go to "rockauto.com" and order by Dorman part number, pricing will be about 1/2 EMPI and quality will probably be twice as good....

Even if you do not go with the above products, be aware you are not held captive by what VW suppliers sell....... Some times you have to go "outside the box"........

Dale

Sun Aug 30, 2009 9:48 am

AJAX_JC 69 wrote: thanks for the info, never heard of getting the shoes "arced" how would i do that.

Many brake shops used to have tool they mounted up shoes in and they were swung in a "arc" against a rotary grinding drum.... The concept was to grind shoe face down (radius) to match drum radius.... This gives full and complete contact of shoe to drum surface immediately on assembling brakes system, and you don't have to "wear in" shoes (and repeated adjusting) to get full contact of shoes on drum surface... Process has fallen out of favor with self adjusting brakes and environmental and health issues (lung cancer) with grinding shoes that may contain asbestos...

Process does work though....... Had shoes that were not in full contact with drums on rear of race car (new drums, new shoes about 40% contact) and could not get any stopping power to rear (incidentally they were larger type 3 brakes on type 1 chassis/fiberglass buggy) and as soon as I had shoes arced to match drums stopping power when to 100% and left awesome skid patches to prove it........

Find old time brake shop (one that has been there for 100 years) and ask then if the can arc (match) shoes to drum.... No not Midas(or the likes), the don't know what the word "arc" even means....

Dale

Sat Sep 05, 2009 5:31 am

Here is another question. What years should I order brake drums for? I have wide 5 with link pin front end and swing axle rear.