TheSamba.com :: View topic - splitty highway driving: transmission modification options??

Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:02 pm

Hello~

Just wanted to generate a discussion on the different options for getting a split bus up to speed on the highway; specifically based on the pro's and con's of any given option. In my case I have a stock 1600 dp in my split bus, I don't use it to haul things very often, and was wanting to up the speed a 'bit to do some traveling in it. Do freeway fliers only have the fourth gear changed? If that's true, it seems in my particular case it may be better to install a beetle tranny to get about 5mph? more out of every gear. I know that this has been done before. Are there any other related modifications that will need to be done? What about getting rid of the reduction boxes? Any better ideas out there?

Thanks for the input ~Kevin

Fri Aug 08, 2003 12:15 pm

freeway flier.. lower R&P
Straight AXle.. Eleminates redux. but is 3 inlower..
IRS.. THE way to go IMO. stock lowered what ever you want.. and a better ride

Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:05 pm

My opinion is to go with the freeway flyer. Chillkoot says the ride is better. I don't personally know, but the freeway flyer requires a lot less work. It bolts in, IRS requires some work to put it in.

Fri Aug 08, 2003 9:44 pm

When installing the F/F do you loose the redux gears? or do they stay? I'm also at a loss when it comes to the tranny thing (No not A T.V.!!) The IRS conversion sounds like a headache waiting to happen. F/F seems to me to be more newbie friendly. Any thoughts ?

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:24 pm

when you install a "freeway flier" your swapping out your r&p gear to a 3:88 rather then keeping your stock 4:12. you keep your redux boxes but still can cruise 70-80+ all day....if you lose your redux you will drop the rear end 3 inches

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:32 pm

So Nick, I can keep the redux box and still lower the rear end of my '65 by turning the splines? will this have any bad effect on my driveline?

Fri Aug 08, 2003 10:36 pm

one more thing, mine came with lower gearing for moutain travel (m-code 092) are those gears in the redux box or in the tranny? if in the redux box, how will a F/F affect this? Any help is appreciated.

Sat Aug 09, 2003 1:02 pm

sorry ive never heard of mountain travel gearing, as for stress......i really dont know, but yes you can turn the splines in the rear with redux boxes but your tires will tow in tremendously. if your going to lower it you might as well just install a wolfgang kit. with the kit you will drop the rear 3" and you will have no tow in unles you decide to drop the rear anymore then 3" BUT anymore then 3" you will have a hell of a time getting the rear wheels off anf on without removing the axles from the spring plate.

Sat Aug 09, 2003 3:56 pm

What kit are you tlking about? and is everything that I need included?

Sat Aug 09, 2003 9:44 pm

heres the deal your tranny most likly has the gearing for the mountain seem to make more sence .

Freeway fligher is good , i say just do that . Its more newbie friendly then anything else sugested but still work.

For lowereing you would have to buy Tranny and Axels with brakes from 68 bug or any type 3 so $$$$$

Plus if you do stright axels you will have to lower the front thats another 300 for the spindles or you will have a 3 inch rake in the front

irs = $$$$$ and lots of time

and bus trannys spin backwards ( 4 reverse 1 forward) and the reduction boxes make the wheels spin forward

so if you just slap in a bug tranny you will have 4 reverse i forwars

Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:03 am

Well I'm planning on replacing the tranny anyway, and we want the bus dropped so the front spindles where already figured in the cost of doing the bus. I'ts just that dropping the rear end has me confused :shock:
It looks like I will need a F/F for a'68 bug not a bus right? also Axles and Brakes (drums right?) Then what does the kit consist of?

Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:34 am

There is a striaght axle kit that uses a swing axle type 1 tranny and a IRS kit which uses a IRS type one tranny. Neither have RGB's, either will lower the bus and give you better rpms on the freeway. Call wolfgang or busboys and they can help you sort out which you would like.

Sun Aug 10, 2003 12:05 pm

OK here`s the deal. One persons "Freeway Flyer" may not be the same as the others. Some places will use a 4.12 instead of a 4.37 and thats it.
Some will use a taller fourth gear and thats it. Some will use a 3.88 and thats it. Others may use an aftermarket 3.44. Most places use a 3.88 and thats it. This works well. There are lots of combinations that can used. There is no set formula for building this "Freeway Flyer" that everyone talks about. I think the best way to go is the 3.88 R&P with a tall fourth gear. But I don`t think thatyou be able to cruise at 80 mph all day if you still have the boxes. If you have a big motor you can go with the 3.44 but this pretty pricey. Now this is when you still have the reduction boxes. If you are using a straight axle kit (My favorite) or go I.R.S. than the 3.44 is to tall. The 3.88 will work if you have some horsepower to back it up but it be slow in town and on some hills. Also,don`t forget that if you are rebuilding your transaxle and are keeping you r reduction boxes you should definately replace all the bearings in the boxes. If you have to pay a shop to do all this it won`t be cheap.I think Rancho charges around $1000 for a drum to drum rebuild on a reduction box trans. For this kind of money you could buy drop spindles and a straight axle kit. That is if you want to lower your bus. And you definately don`t want to use bug brakes either. Type three`s are the biggest you can get. If not you can use early bus rears. The best is discbrakes but this gets more complicated.

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:44 pm

Quote: It looks like I will need a F/F for a'68 bug not a bus right? also Axles and Brakes (drums right?) Then what does the kit consist of?

F/F tranny for a bug dosnt have to be 68 64-68 best But yes bug if useing stright axel kit OH yeah you will have to use your bus nose cone on the bug tranny so it will work so save that!

Just the axels , brake drums ,backing plates, and guts , From a 68 bug (there 4 lug) OR 61-67 type three (after 65 they were 4 lug).

so if you get 65+ type three or bug you will need adapters or 4lug rims

the kit Costs from wolfgang $219.95 says in the book there is $100 core thats good $100 back in your wallet if you give them your apring plates thats up to you

The kit includes axel tubes ,spring plates, to axel seal kits , also prety detailed instructions

i know there is alot but its easyer than it sounds and its the only Cheep way to do it

http://www.wolfgangint.com/

Sun Aug 10, 2003 4:58 pm

It just seems that avery new post adds a new piece to the puzzle? and gets me more confused :shock: SO using the kit from wolfgang what will i need to get to complete this transformation?

Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:16 pm

this all sounds way too confusing so let me break it down now that we know you want it lowered

You will need a type 3 or bug swing axle tranny. whatever #'s you decide(eliminating reduction boxes) You will need the T3 long axles, and the kit from any of the bus places (the kit is custom axle TUBES and cut spring plates, which you can make both if you are a welder)

the brakes you will need early type 3 (5 lug) I think bus boys has them pretty cheap. As others mentioned you can use bug stuff, but it is too small and not safe. If you have to, you can use 4 lug type 3, but then you must use adapters to wide 5

you must retain your bus nose cone, to use on the bug or type 3 tranny.

those mountan redux boxes are woth big money, so selling them here on the samba will fund a lot of this expense.

about gear ratio's and stuff, you will also need to consider what tires you are going to be using, along with what rims. also with on a 1600, do you really want a freeway flyer tranny, lowering the gear ratio also lowers the cooling fan speed, therefore making your bus run hotter. all these little minor details need to be decided first, before everyone starts spending YOUR money :)

Sun Aug 10, 2003 6:23 pm

Exactly. Listen to Eric. There are a couple of other things. As far as axles go, you can use typr three or 68 only bug as they are the same. Or, you can buy aftermarket axles from Sway A Way but they are pricey and need a little work before installing. If you buy your kit from Wolfgang
it will come with good instructions and a list of all the little bits you will need for the conversion. Probably the best way to go is with a 4.12 R&P.
I have done maybe half a dozen of these and it seems to be the best comprimise for gearing. You might want to just buy a bus nosecone and hockey stick from whereever you get the trannt. That way you can keep your original bus trans intact so it will sell or keep better.

Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:09 pm

Thanks for all you input guys :) I have another post on what wheel/tire combo will work with a lowered bus. Anyways, would 700.00 get me where I want to be, 3.5" closer to mother Earth? and should I do the suspension before I finish the body work?ANYBODY INTERESTED IN SOME REDUX BOX WITH MT. LOWER GEARING????

Sun Aug 10, 2003 8:58 pm

I spent more like $1000 but you will save money if you buy from one of the guys here that make the stuff. Where is Rizzag?

Mon Aug 11, 2003 2:21 am

sorry im all scatter brained but what he said was somewere in my post last time i remeber doing one of the drops was when i was 12 on a friends bus so i know what was needed after it came to me but look around for deals save as much as you can dosnt all have to be new and flashy just make shure its good