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Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:24 am

I, like many others, have always wanted to race the Baja. I have been talking to a few friends with similar mindsets, and we decided (in our late 30's and early 40's) to go for it. We hope to run in the spring 500 race.

So as it sits, we have a three man (maybe four) team, two of us to drive, and one to have a trailer and a cooler ready for when we break/roll/collapse or maybe even finish.

I initially wanted to do it on dirt bikes, but we decided we were way too out of shape for that nonsense.

We all live in northern VT, where bugs are rare, and baja style bugs are...well...I have never seen one here.

Picked this up for about a grand last week, a mostly stock 1976 with the glass kit, some rust and a popped DP motor with all the rebuild parts short of one head.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:32 am

Now onto the questions.

I have been searching the site for what seems to be endless fantastic info on how to build these. I have built off road trucks before, and have a sprung over 1967 landcruiser all set up for crawling, but these are a totally different animal.

I cannot compete in class 11 with the glass kit, correct?

If so, that moves me into 5/1600?

We are hoping to be into the project for around 3K, not including the cost of the car. I have a friend with a junkyard that is sponsoring us with any free bug parts we might need, he has 6 buses and about 20 bugs.

We have another friend who is a metal fab guy by trade, and has a nice bender, willing to help us for cost.

My thoughts are a link pin front (can I get a conversion from the ball joint or do I have to cut and weld the frame head) with a 6" over beam and long travel shocks to the cage, 3x3 rear arms and duals into the cage like on the chirco site.

I have a full set of long travel RS9000's in the box for my cruiser, but they do not seem to be popular here. Wish I had ponied up for the billies.

I picked up the jeff hibbard book, and a book on how to build the motor.

We have welders, torches and the like.

So, if you have a limited budget, but could not really get into class 11, how would you build it?

Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:32 am

What class are you planing on racing? I would recommend 5/1600 over 11.

Your going to need a lot more than 4 people for the race.

Sign up with a pit service like Mag 7, Baja pits and run BFG tire so you can use their fueling service.

I would also recommend hooking up with a race team and coming out for the 1000 to give you a better idea of what your up against. It's going to be a loop race this year and pretty short. Kinda like the 500 course but with San Felipe added in.......

Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:37 am

looks like a good start and a good plan, but maybe more than 1 person to pit or trailer... first you need to pick a class. not trying to scare you but a 5-1600 can cost upwards of $60,000. class 5-1600 looks like a baja bug with stock dimensions. here is a 5-1600 picture thread.

http://www.desertrides.com/features/vehicles/sack_class5/index.php

other classes you can run are class 5 unlimited, and class 11. make sure you read up on all the SCORE rules. it would suck to make it all the way out there and not be able to race due to rule violation. find the style you like and build it the best you can.

hope this helps

Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:40 am

I cannot compete in class 11 with the glass kit, correct? Correct

If so, that moves me into 5/1600? Yes

My thoughts are a link pin front (can I get a conversion from the ball joint or do I have to cut and weld the frame head) with a 6" over beam and long travel shocks to the cage, 3x3 rear arms and duals into the cage like on the chirco site. Swap out the frame head, the adapters will not last the race

I have a full set of long travel RS9000's in the box for my cruiser, but they do not seem to be popular here. Wish I had ponied up for the billies. THose are junk and will not last long in the race. You need a 2" reservoir shocks minimum. 2.5" would be better. Call Joel @ Bilstien, He can get you shocks with the right valving taking the guess work out of it.

Get a copy of the SCORE rule book and read it through very carefully before you start building.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 9:41 am

It certainly does help, and I really appreciate the feedback. I will order the score book so I know exactly what we can and cannot do, what size tube we have to run, etc.

I thought the class 11 had to have stock fenders and the like? (Edit- never mind. saw the above post, thanks.)

Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:07 am

Class 11 is going to cost you about 15,000 for a competitive car. Competitive meaning one that will finish a race, not win, finish. 5/1600 on the cheap is going to cost you 35,000. Again finish, not win. Why not buy a car already built? Your gonna be money ahead and ready to race, without the proper knowledge you are not going to be able to build a proper car, the SCORE rule book was written in 1969 and its very vague, you can go to the SNORE wedbsite and download the book for free. If your gonna build a SCORE legal car, find a class 11 or 5/1600 racer and have them help you, if not you will pay more when you go back and do it right the second time. Not trying to discourage you, just trying to get you started in the right direction, they say that 5% of the people that start out to race make it, so do your homework before you jump into it and do it right. You can PM me with any questions about Class 11 or 5/1600 as I have both.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:30 am

I fully appreciate your comments, and no, it will not scare me off.

I am not, by any means trying to be competitive. I know we do not have the money for that.

Honestly, if I can get 100 yards off the start line, I will have considered the endeavor a success. It is just for bragging rights, and to say I have done it.

Hopefully, our biggest expense is driving three (or more, apparently) guys across the country and building memories we can take with us forever.

I know how many do not finish, and as much as I hope to, I certainly do not expect to.

So, how would you put together a car on a budget? Turned front linkpin with thing arms, 3x3's in the rear with better torsions? I do not think we have the cash for dual disks and coilovers, thought it would be nice.

I have new harnesses on order, I have a new set of suspention seats, and will not skimp on the cage or tubing.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:53 am

Class 11 coalition.com there is a 11 for sale on there pretty cheap might be a good start. Id go 11 for now and dont go too deep on the 5/1600 untill you race some. You could build a 11 on the cheap for around 10,000. and yes I have a parts supplier that was in the VW Business for 35 years, theres still some serious cost. I would not buy any shocks right now you have to run reservoirs. I hear the just start the race thing, but when you see what your gonna have in a race your gonna want to finish or compete. It still costs the same to enter, fuel, hotel, food, drag your car out there. Do it right. The best advice I got was from King Dave Hendrickson, he told me to do it right spend the money and even if it puts your plans off for a year or so, you'll be money ahead. You should really invest the money and go to a race first to see what its about, look at some cars and find out what your in for. The SNORE 250 is in October and you could pit with some teams to see what its like. Let me know if you have questions, if you make it to the SNORE 250 you can help us pit/drink beer........I beleive the Mil is the same as last years race.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 11:41 am

rabidfj40 wrote:

So, how would you put together a car on a budget? Turned front linkpin with thing arms, 3x3's in the rear with better torsions? I do not think we have the cash for dual disks and coilovers, thought it would be nice.

Probably first thing to do is to get a SCORE rulebook. For instance...3x3 arms are not allowed unless you plan to race Class 5 unlimited. Also, may want to consider doing some 'shorter' races in some of the other series. Much closer and can sometime be done with smaller support teams.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:41 pm

Dont waste the money, go to SNORE website and download it for free.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:46 pm

you have a PM.

thanks for the info guys.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:55 pm

Got it call me for more info. Robert Johnson

Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:09 pm

blitzschnell racing wrote: Class 11 is going to cost you about 15,000 for a competitive car. Competitive meaning one that will finish a race, not win, finish. 5/1600 on the cheap is going to cost you 35,000.

While I think you costs are a little high to build a finishing car, the guys I know doing it for less have years of experience. Not sure how you would put a dollar amount on that. I agree with you though, it's always cheaper and easier to buy a finished car.

Another fun point, Getting the car tagged for SCORE. Being from VT you would have to get it inspected right before the race and hope Bill's in a good mood that day and everything passes or it's no race. Buying a car that is all ready tagged will eliminate this hurdle.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:15 pm

Speaking of cheaper.......

http://www.race-dezert.com/cgi-bin/trader/atl.cgi?ct=5&md=second&id=22

http://www.race-dezert.com/cgi-bin/trader/atl.cgi?ct=5&md=second&id=777821

Actually, the cheapest way to go would be to run sportsman. No restrictions on what you can do to the bug. Since your not running a whole season or going for the win/championship why limit your build to restrictive class rules?

Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:28 pm

I am basis this on the fact that in 2006 we had almost 10,000.00 in the car before the baja 1000 and only made it to checkpoint 1. I have heard Eric tell people at contingency that a competitive class 11 in SCORE costs 20,000.00. Eric put almost $8,000.00 into the Swing Axle 11 for the Baja 500 (which we won) and that was for one race. I know your not going to go to Mexico and try and beat Solorzano, but if your going to go there at least have a chance at finishing. There is way more to building these than reading a rule book, that is 1. Vague and 2. written 40 years ago. I hope you can come to the next race, check out the cars and learn what you need to do to make something that works. There is alot of interpulation that goes into building the car. And your right, bdkw1, in this economy there are soooo many smokin deals on SCORE tagged race cars its insane. I don't think you'd have a problem gettin Savage to tech it before the race, he techs us the day before, its just if something isnt right, you dont have time to find someone to fix it.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 5:58 pm

got it past the wife. I am looking into flights.

She thinks I am an idiot, but is supportive nonetheless.

School me on sportsman? I went to the snore site and downloaded the snore rules, same as score? it is over 100 pages- I have yet to read it all.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:21 pm

2 cents. i am not saying the baja 1000 could not be done but have you thought about starting out with some smaller races. like maybe some of the racing in texas http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=374565 . a little closer to home and shorter for a young/old man (no offence) to be beat up. the west coast guys have the advantage of practicing, conditioning and training in similar environment conditions. this could be a stepping stone to get ready and conditioning for you and your equipment for the big race (baja 1000)

Mon Aug 31, 2009 6:34 pm

Where in vermont? There is a baja bug in cambridge being driven around. Join the class11 coalition site for more info. Renting the dvd "dust to glory" might give you a smidgen of information. Got a place to drive offroad, that's what i lack. Good luck.

Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:41 pm

Yes the Rule book is a copy of the SCORE rules, everyone uses the SCORE rule book. You got my number call me when your ready, I am pretty much available anytime, if not at work (fireman) I'm in the shop working on a chase truck, pre runner, or my 5/1600 that I have yet to race (need to build an engine and I'm racing for points this year in the 11). The mint 400 is a very good race too, SNORE is a great organization. if you come to the race Eric can give you some tips, he was in Dust to GLory.