TheSamba.com :: View topic - Factory rebuilt KDS 25hp dissection (renamed topic)

Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:23 am

Date codes on the D Reg, generator and distributor?

I don't find it odd at all that they did not "update" other parts. If the engine just got a long block replacement, I can plainly see them just bolting up everything peripheral from the other engine. Dists and gens are expensive parts, someone was probably already in cardiac arrest over the bill for the long block..... :shock:

Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:34 am

That's the weird part, the car was manufactured before the parts on this motor were. If they did just swap parts from the failed motor to the long block, this car had a bunch of parts replaced between October 1949 and when the motor failed sufficiently to get the replacement sometime in or after 1956.

I checked the D regulator and the date code there is 4F so April 1950.

Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:45 am

nlorntson wrote:
And I'm curious as to what this little thing is on the generator. There is something similar on the coil. The Car did have a speaker bolted to the bottom of the dash so I'm sure it had a radio. I suppose these were some sort of noise reducers?

Yes, it is part of the noise supression system for a tube radio.
Is there a resistor between the coil and 383? See pic below.
Also, are there resistor ends on the spark plug wires?

If you go to http://gutefahrt.com/ , click on RADIOS/Telefunken, there is a "Telefunken Auto-Super IA-50 installation instructions".

Interesting that the bolt for the generator strap is pointing up like it shows in the Parts Manual. But unlike the Owner's Manual which shows it pointing down.

Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:53 am

[quote="Suboval"....
Interesting that the bolt for the generator strap is pointing up like it shows in the Parts Manual. But unlike the Owner's Manual which shows it pointing down.
[/quote]

Yeah. At least it has the correct band dist cap clips, not those later wire ones. :wink:

Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:54 am

Suboval wrote: Is there a resistor between the coil and 383? See pic below.
Also, are there resistor ends on the spark plug wires?

There is a resistor on the coil side (see the picture on page one of this thread)

I don't know about the spark plug ends. What would I be looking for? I'll take a picture of both ends of them and post them later.

Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:40 am

nlorntson wrote: Suboval wrote: Is there a resistor between the coil and 383? See pic below.
Also, are there resistor ends on the spark plug wires?

There is a resistor on the coil side (see the picture on page one of this thread)

I don't know about the spark plug ends. What would I be looking for? I'll take a picture of both ends of them and post them later.

I see a capacitor (silver colored on the bottom) connected to the coil, but not the resistor (redish brown) between the coil and 383.

The spark plug ends are longer than the non reisistor types.

Wed Sep 09, 2009 9:26 pm

I took some time this evening to clean a bit of one of the heads. I found a casting number on it as well as some other miscellaneous numbers that appear to be stamped in the center between the two cylinder openings (a 1 and a 4).

16 5 15 = May 16 1955

The other head seems to have a very different looking part number configuration (same number but different look) and does not appear to have the casting number in the same location. Did different part manufacturers for VW perhaps have different molds so things like the part numbers were the same but their font, size and location vary?

Maybe back then VW was not so much into branding ;)

Fri Sep 11, 2009 11:18 pm

nlorntson wrote: Over and over, we see these cars in the middle of forests, peoples back yards, barns, farmer fields. Each time it gets me wondering what the history of the vehicle was, what failed to take it off the road? Did the owner lose interest? Health problems? Mechanical problems? Cost? Rust? Going back to the original question, the reason the car survived at all is almost certainly because of the cleavage of the back window. At a time when Volkswagens were selling in the tens of thousands and older ones were starting to be junked in mass numbers, some split owners stopped to consider that their car was "one of the first ones," and might be worth tucking away. Volkswagen owners were never oblivious to the significance of that back window, even in the folklore days. There has always been a following among VW enthusiasts for the split back window cars.

Sat Sep 26, 2009 5:29 pm

I made some more progress on the engine disassembly. The #3 and #4 cylinders, pistons and rods are off but it took a sawzall and portapower :shock: to do it without damaging the fins or skirt.

I'd like to rebuild a motor using the other case I have (August 1949) but the best "upgraded" 25hp parts amongst the two sets I have. I found some interesting numbers on the cast cylinders and connecting rods.

Can anyone tell me anything about these parts based on the numbers shown ? Is there any way to tell that these are a "late 25hp" part versus an "early 25hp part".

Progressive refinements seems to indicate there were some changes made over the course of the 25hp era to improve the durability of the motor.

On this cylinder, the cast numbers appear to be machined off

Sat Sep 26, 2009 9:19 pm

Another question. This motor has the early upper tin that looks like this:

It did not have the upper air deflector tin as discussed in this post:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=274409&highlight=cylinder+head+tin

It did have the lower deflectors seen on later motors. The other motor does have these upper deflectors.

Is it better to run with one or the other or both. Any opinions?

Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:47 pm

The split forum on this website is like a course in archeology and anthropology. Not only are you dissecting and studying the history of the motor through the parts that it contains but your considering the culture and environment of the person who owned the car. You could write a doctoral thesis on early VW's and the society who created and owned them with all of the info in this forum....8)

Mon Sep 28, 2009 8:52 pm

Another interesting comparison between the factory rebuilt engine and the August 1949 engine is the oil coolers and mounting points.

The Rebuilt cooler looks like this:

note the flat base

note the split "fingers"

note the round top similar to the 36hp but without the mounting bolt and bracket.

The setup on the August 1949 engine is very different. Notice the raised base

It's hard to see in this picture but the base does not have the "fingers" it's a flat "shelf"

The top is square and flat with three ridges

Compare this compared to a 36hp case and cooler from a 1956 case with the round top but bracket and nut boss:

The base is similar to the factory rebuilt engine, flat with no raised border.

Makes me wonder if some of the design improvements implemented for the 36hp motors were applied to the 25hp cases cast and coolers manufactured around the same time.

More mysteries.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:36 pm

Funny, as I was persuing the auction items being discussed in http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=384994

I came across this piece of literature:

Notice the heater boxes on the engine leaving the car and the ones on the engine going to the car. No wonder they are so rare. When engines were rebuilt, they were taken off and replaced wtih the "upgraded" ones. :lol:

Can anyone translate what the brochure says?

Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:44 am

Yeah, I noticed that too Nancy. The "new" engine still has the jacketed K though. Interesting because that new style heater box didn't come out until '51, and the JK didn't last past '52, probably mid year. So at least from the details in the pic, it looks like a '51 brochure. Of course they coul dhave printed and used them well past then even if it was not showing the intake they were using on the replacement engines.

I'm sure later on they were trashing those JKs for the newer ones with thicker heat risers every chance they could get...