TheSamba.com :: View topic - Remove generator assembly without pulling motor?

Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:39 am

Just a simple question for you guys. Is it possible to remove/replace the generator assembly without pulling the motor?

Bad generator on road trip, replacing it in Sturgis. Guy has used, good generators and one alternator conversion. Is the alternator conversion worth doing?

Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:41 am

It may be easier to pull the engine and put the gen in. You can do it the other way, but is more of a pain than it is worth.

As for the Alt, they do the same. I like gens for the external regulator. Alt can provide more power/amps if needed though.

Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:58 am

It is just way freakin' easier to pull the motor... but as far as being broken down on a road trip goes, I can understand why one would think to try. I would have a good look at the brushes inside the generator before I went and bought a generator... "Good Used Generator" usually ='s a previous customer's core gen. had brushes replaced and is now usable. Brushes, if that is the problem, are relatively inexpensive, especially when compared with the price of a "good used" generator.

Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:13 pm

Busryder wrote: It is just way freakin' easier to pull the motor... but as far as being broken down on a road trip goes, I can understand why one would think to try. I would have a good look at the brushes inside the generator before I went and bought a generator... "Good Used Generator" usually ='s a previous customer's core gen. had brushes replaced and is now usable. Brushes, if that is the problem, are relatively inexpensive, especially when compared with the price of a "good used" generator.

Bullocks. I did mine in less than an hour doing the "reach around" method. If you have air tools it is real easy. Reach around the shroud with your impact wrench and remove the big fan nut. Detach fan from generator. Remove four screws on the front, remove strap and voila! It slide right out.
--Dan

Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:27 pm

Drop the engine. I replaced generator in alley on way to the Classic. Took about an hour and a half. Next time you put your fan assembly together only torque to 40 ft lbs. This way you can get it free without air tools and it will still hold tight.

Wed Sep 23, 2009 12:50 pm

Drop the engine.
You can do all kinds of other maintenance stuff at the same time.
Use the opportunity to do things like retorque the heads, check the fuel lines for wear, go over the exhaust system, etc....

Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:21 pm

Braukuche wrote: Reach around the shroud with your impact wrench and remove the big fan nut. Detach fan from generator.
--Dan

So you were ready to catch the washer and shims or what? Sounds like a decent way. I wonder if a breaker bar, socket, and the ol' screw driver in the pulley jamb would work to break it free or would the pulley bend and the shaft tweak. I saw a guy remove his pedestal after raising up the shroud and finally get the gen/fan assembly out but it looks like a good way to wreck an oil cooler if it's still og inside the shroud.

Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:36 pm

This guy is in Sturgis on a road trip. Doubt he has air tools at the ready. I've done it with a breaker bar and screwdriver in the pully and it sucks. Had to crawl halfway into the engine compartment. Hope your not tall. Drop the engine if you can.

Wed Sep 23, 2009 5:42 pm

BarryL wrote: Braukuche wrote: Reach around the shroud with your impact wrench and remove the big fan nut. Detach fan from generator.
--Dan

So you were ready to catch the washer and shims or what? Sounds like a decent way. I wonder if a breaker bar, socket, and the ol' screw driver in the pulley jamb would work to break it free or would the pulley bend and the shaft tweak. I saw a guy remove his pedestal after raising up the shroud and finally get the gen/fan assembly out but it looks like a good way to wreck an oil cooler if it's still og inside the shroud.

Yes, it was really easy. I know some people claim they can pull the engine and drop it back in in less than an hour, but it take me half a day what with removing the bumper, dealing with the fuel line, cables, etc etc. If I can avoid pulling the engine to do maintenance that's what I prefer. But to each his own.
--Dan

Wed Sep 23, 2009 6:09 pm

I dunno why it'd take half a day to pull a motor. 1/2 hour generally, if you are taking it easy and hanging out then 1 hour.
If the nuts are at the appropriate torque you can pull the gen w/o pulling the motor, though it is trickier w/ thermostat. (remove thermo stat from underneath.) You do have to push the fan shroud up to remove the lower two nuts holding the gen to the tin. A ratchet wrench can help there. You generally pull the carb.

But you can do it with engine in or out.

If the 36mm nut is on too tight (often happens) it can be a PITA to remove. If you don't have air, the best way is to strap it to the gen stand and use a pipe on the breaker bar. Which means the engine is out. Or you cut a slot in the side of the bus :shock:
putting a screwdriver in the fan's fins tends to bend the fins. :(

The first few times I did this I removed the generator with fan on, with engine in car. It was a non-dog house, which may make a difference. I did it in the parking lot behind the liquor store next to Volks Cafe in Santa Cruz. I had just got a split bus, and didn't really know what I was doing, and it didn't take all that long. I lived in the mountains and wanted to be close to the parts place in case I needed something, not stuck in the boonies with no running vehicle and a 1 1/2 mile walk to the bus and an hour bus ride to get parts, if all the connections went right, longer if I had to wait.

I think the torque on the fan nut is something like 30-40 ft lbs. Which should be fine to undo w/o air. Easy, if it is torqued properly.

It is not a freaking axle nut. Don't put it on with air.

Wed Sep 23, 2009 7:47 pm

43 ft. lbs.

If you are lifting up the fanshroud to get the gen/fan out as a unit, you have to disconnect the accelerator cable and thermostat stuff anyway, so you're already poking around the hidden front of both sides of the fanshroud. While you're there, you could just as easily remove the two engine mounting nuts.
And if you want to be able to reach around the fanshroud, its alot easier with the bumper and rear engine apron off anyway.

So, we're talking about removing the lower two engine mount bolts, gas line, and generator/regulator/oil sensor wires as the main difference in work between not removing the engine and removing it.

Just pull the damn engine.
My opinion.

Here I am not pulling the engine on the side of the road.
The caption for this photo is:
those 10mm nuts that bolt the generator to the fan shroud are tough to get to!

Wed Sep 23, 2009 10:58 pm

I say pull the motor and ultimately save time.

Work smarter, not harder.

Wed Sep 23, 2009 11:53 pm

Braukuche wrote: BarryL wrote: Braukuche wrote: Reach around the shroud with your impact wrench and remove the big fan nut. Detach fan from generator.
--Dan

So you were ready to catch the washer and shims or what? Sounds like a decent way. I wonder if a breaker bar, socket, and the ol' screw driver in the pulley jamb would work to break it free or would the pulley bend and the shaft tweak. I saw a guy remove his pedestal after raising up the shroud and finally get the gen/fan assembly out but it looks like a good way to wreck an oil cooler if it's still og inside the shroud.

it is really easy. I know some people claim they can pull the engine and drop it back in in less than an hour, but it take me half a day what with removing the bumper, dealing with the fuel line, cables, etc etc. But to each his own.
--Dan

My son can pull my motor in about an hour... he just needs some stabilization with it on the jack as he pulls it out. But the wiring, fuel lines, accelerator cable, and the hardware are all him, and so are the jack and stands, (safety first). It is possible for a thirteen year old kid to do it...

...so any other monkey with a little initiative should be able to so as well. And a Sturgis break down sounds like some good ol' fashion biker initiative to me. 8)

Thu Sep 24, 2009 1:07 am

I prefer to do this with the engine out, for all the good reasons already mentioned.

But I have replcaed the genny under a tree at the roadside when the windings turned to spaghetti on a road trip far from home, using only my travelling tool kit. It was definitely quicker and easier than pulling the whole engine.

I guess it depends if you have time and a safe place to work and you want to check everything out. If you're in a hurry, just do it with the enigne in.

Thu Sep 24, 2009 10:16 pm

hopefully its just the brushes easy fix, hell it takes me a 1/2 hr just to find my tools, another 10 minutes to find a pencil to plug the fuel line, pull the motor

Sat Sep 26, 2009 2:38 pm

When building a motor remove the generator stand studs, ream holes and install 8x1.25 timeserts (like a helicoil). Install the stand with allen head cap screws.
If you have to remove the generator or alternator remove the allen head bolts and 4 bolts on the fan shoud and slide the whole thing straight out. Works best with dual carbs.

Sat Sep 26, 2009 4:47 pm

So blitzkrieg59... What did you wind up doing? Results? Any good Sturgis stories come of it like swapping your wife for the alt. conversion :shock: ?

Inquiring minds want to know...

Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:07 am

Braukuche wrote: Reach around the shroud with your impact wrench and remove the big fan nut. Detach fan from generator. Remove four screws on the front, remove strap and voila! It slide right out.
--Dan

Could you please elaborate a bit on this? I can't visualize the generator cooling plate clearing the intake and the tower. Does the shaft (with the shouldered hub and key intact, I assume) clear the fan and there's enough room between the intake to lift it away? Do the shims try to fall off. How hard is it to get it back in?

Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:44 am

Busryder wrote: It is possible for a thirteen year old kid to do it...
)

True, my 14 year old brother pulled the engine out of his Bus himself.
His exact words afterwards. "Wow, that was pretty easy"

Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:27 am

BarryL wrote: Braukuche wrote: Reach around the shroud with your impact wrench and remove the big fan nut. Detach fan from generator. Remove four screws on the front, remove strap and voila! It slide right out.
--Dan

Could you please elaborate a bit on this? I can't visualize the generator cooling plate clearing the intake and the tower. Does the shaft (with the shouldered hub and key intact, I assume) clear the fan and there's enough room between the intake to lift it away? Do the shims try to fall off. How hard is it to get it back in?

With the fan off the hub and sitting loose in the shroud the generator/plate assembly can come back 1/2" and lift up to clear the manifold. Yes the shims/washers sometimes fall off but when the unit is out there is a big hole in the shroud to go looking for them with a light, mirror and magnet, the bottom of the hole is flat so nothing falls to where it's irretrieveable. Easy to get back in, do a dry run and assemble the fan onto the hub to check the gaps first then make sure you sit the fan in the hole before you begin the reassembly.