TheSamba.com :: View topic - Anyone used Peel & Seal for interior insulation

Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:46 pm

GusC2it wrote: Butyl is an asphalt based product. Even natural tree rubber has a smell. Ever smell a new car? save your money!

In correct
Asphalt and butyl are two completly different materials.
I formulate butyl adhesives with the help of some more experienced adhesive checmical engineers, & kind of know a thing or two about this stuff.
Aspahlt is not elastomeric, or crosslinked and will flow (soften or melt) at temperature above 180 degrees f. it is also toxic, outgases and will not deadene nearly as much vibrations compared to a butyl wiehn laminated to equal thickness/strength foil constraining layers.

There is a huge difference between the two.
Also, Neoprene is nothing close to butyl either.

ANT

Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:50 pm

second skin rep wrote: GusC2it wrote: Butyl is an asphalt based product. Even natural tree rubber has a smell. Ever smell a new car? save your money!

In correct
Asphalt and butyl are two completly different materials.
I formulate butyl adhesives and know a thing or two about this stuff.
Aspahlt is not elastomeric, or crosslinked and will flow (soften or melt) at temperature above 180 degrees f.
Butyl will not.

There is a huge difference between the two.

ANT

Yeahh! 8) Thanks for chiming in on what seems to be an endless debate with a very clear and easily verified response/conclusion.

I used BXTII from Raamaudio with great results. :D
http://www.raamaudio.com

:!: PLEASE DON'T USE ASPHALT IN YOUR VEHICLE. IF NOT FOR YOUR SAKE, THEN SPARE ANY FUTURE OWNERS THE HASSLE AND THE HAZARD. :!:

Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:51 pm

Rick has some good products
The nex BXT II is a good one for sure.
Has a foil that is twice as thik as the old stuff.

The thicker the foil the better the vibration damping results.
This is why the peel and seal roofing mastics make for terrible vibration dmapers. Aspahlt and soft, thin foil goes against the exact science behind constraint layer damping.

People continue to seek out cheaper materials to save money, no knowing how things work.
Just because things look simiar does not mean the perform similar.
Hell, a Tiburon and a 911 will look pretty much exactly the same to someone that has never seen an automobile..
Those that know though, would go with the 911.

Good choice with Raammat

ANT

Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:38 am

used fatmat in my notchback and plan to use it inmy 69 bus. it was reasonably affordable and I tried the roof material but it was harder to work with and for the difference in price compared to fatt matt was nominal. this has been debated as to what is better etc on many forums and it comes down to the simple fact of how much you want to spend. I know everyone has a different circumstance but it comes down to not being a cheap skate. I am all for finding a better less expensive way to do things dont get me wrong but what is your time worth. just my 2 cents

Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:54 pm

This is an alternative to the insulations being used.
light, cheap,and it works.
I was surfing the H.A.M.B one day and came across it. Then did a bunch of reading on use and the feedback.
I have used 2 rolls of B-quiet on my beetle and wasn't really happy with the noise reduction.
So I have used this exclusively in my TIII and we'll see if there is an inprovement in sound dampening as well as insulation. It applies with contact cement and conforms to all sorts of shapes.

http://lobucrod.com/

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:50 pm

Just to reestablish the facts on Quick Roof being a very bad health choice for inside your car, straight from the website:

What is QUICK ROOF?
CPI starts with a reflective aluminum foil. Under the foil are rugged, waterproof polymer films. Laminated beneath the films is a thick layer of rubberized asphalt. The asphalt compound adheres to most surfaces and seals around most punctures, forming a protective waterproof barrier. Finally, a high-quality release paper is applied to shield the adhesive surface until the QUICK ROOF waterproof repair is installed.
http://www.cofair.com/roof.aspx (Quick Roof Manufacturer)

On the other hand, this razor blade makes a great toothpick. :o

Fri Nov 20, 2009 11:10 pm

MinamiKotaro wrote: I used Quick Roof. I don't know if it worked because the car hasn't been driven yet, or even had the engine reinstalled.

Just a little update. The engine and trans went in and I got to drive the car up and down the driveway. I can already tell the Quick Roof cut down the noise. It sounds like the engine is in the rear of the car, rather than inside my ear. :lol:

As to the health concerns, it's been sitting for a couple or three months with no windows installed, so I hope the Quick Roof has cured and most of the fumes have vented by this time.

Sat Nov 21, 2009 11:48 am

MinamiKotaro wrote:
As to the health concerns, it's been sitting for a couple or three months with no windows installed, so I hope the Quick Roof has cured and most of the fumes have vented by this time.

You'll be waiting a long long time for complete curing and venting. It will never happen. ](*,)

Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:20 pm

My guess is that the off-gassing from the quick roof is no worse for you than the fumes from the oil/gunk that has collected in your heat exchangers/heating system over the past 30+ years. Not to mention the asbestos. And the fact that the air for your heating system originates from the engine compartment. The list goes on . . .

Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:22 pm

Just let it go, would ya? This has not been evaluated in the context that the material is being used. You and others that are warning people about this are taking the MSDS out of context and also doing more than a littel speculating. Its covered by foil, then padding, then carpet, the environment its in has substantial air flow.

If you smell it, its seriously outgassing. I know - real quantitative, but in this case more accurate than the "warnings". We drive on asphalt roads - we sit in road construction for an hour in July, we playing ball on a basketball court - so many instances when asphalt its outgassing so badly that the smell is really strong. You can't even smell it in a car shortly after installed.

The stuff works, its cheap.

Sat Nov 21, 2009 1:35 pm

andk5591 wrote: Its covered by foil, then padding, then carpet, the environment its in has substantial air flow.

Foil, padding, and carpet do absolutely nothing to either prevent or reduce offgasing. I agree that if your car was a perpetual convertible there would be less reason for concern - especially when in motion outdoors. I for one would not put any roofing product designed for exterior use in a bus, camper, or any vehicle especially where substantial hours will be spent sleeping etc... :-&

andk5591 wrote: If you smell it, its seriously outgassing. I know - real quantitative, but in this case more accurate than the "warnings". We drive on asphalt roads - we sit in road construction for an hour in July, we playing ball on a basketball court - so many instances when asphalt its outgassing so badly that the smell is really strong. You can't even smell it in a car shortly after installed.

The stuff works, its cheap.

Smell is a good indicator of off gassing. However, lack of smell does not not mean that off gassing has been "completed". All of your examples to refute the warnings involve the outdoor use of asphalt. :-k Asphalt roofing products used outdoors - no problem. Indoors - very different story.

I was just trying to help out fellow enthusiasts make an informed choice for themselves, their families, and any future owners. I sure hope you disclose the material you used to anyone who buys your vehicle (if and when you sell it).

It might be cheap - but that depends upon your definition of cost. Just my 2 cents worth of warning. Take a deep breath :!:

Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:00 pm

Understood, but I see similar posts on the same subject and I feel that this gets into the realm of ridiculous in the context of car enthusiasts. Our cars, in general, produce a myriad of potentially toxic products, ranging from the outgassing of interiors, paint, oil vapor, gas fumes, exhaust, let alone what we are exposed to when wrenching....

We use (should anyway) appropriate protection when shooting paint, but how many of us do when using a rattle can? Or when degreasing an engine, cleaning parts - even doing a tune up..... So I feel that the big stink (pun intended) over this is a little over the top.

I use the stuff and I feel STRONGLY that MOST (I didnt say all) of the brand name application specific products are simply repackaged Peel and Seal or other similar products being resold at a very substantial mark up. Nothing wrong with making money, but I don't like spending more than I need to......

Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:07 pm

andk5591 wrote: Understood, but I see similar posts on the same subject and I feel that this gets into the realm of ridiculous in the context of car enthusiasts. Our cars, in general, produce a myriad of potentially toxic products, ranging from the outgassing of interiors, paint, oil vapor, gas fumes, exhaust, let alone what we are exposed to when wrenching....

Amen my wrenching brother! Reducing the amount of stuff we are exposed to in our hobby can only be a good thing. Keep on wrenching.

Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:38 pm

BUSBOSS wrote: You'll be waiting a long long time for complete curing and venting. It will never happen. ](*,)

Oh, well. If I'm in it the windows are down and the rear windows are popped out. I'll take my chances.

Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:43 pm

MinamiKotaro wrote: Oh, well.

Oh, well. X2

Sat Nov 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Sharpies have an MSDS sheet. Think twice before using them indoors.

Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:19 pm

type11969 wrote: Sharpies have an MSDS sheet. Think twice before using them indoors.

Or just think once. Or better yet - don't think at all. :wink:

Sat Nov 21, 2009 3:34 pm

W1K1 wrote: This is an alternative to the insulations being used.
light, cheap,and it works.
I was surfing the H.A.M.B one day and came across it. Then did a bunch of reading on use and the feedback.
I have used 2 rolls of B-quiet on my beetle and wasn't really happy with the noise reduction.
So I have used this exclusively in my TIII and we'll see if there is an inprovement in sound dampening as well as insulation. It applies with contact cement and conforms to all sorts of shapes.

http://lobucrod.com/

Now this stuff looks good!

P.S. Beware of Vinyls, plastics, rubber and oil based paint.
Out gassing you know. :D

Sat Nov 21, 2009 4:42 pm

GusC2it wrote: W1K1 wrote:

http://lobucrod.com/

Now this stuff looks good!

P.S. Beware of Vinyls, plastics, rubber and oil based paint.
Out gassing you know. :D

I like it - for its thermal insulation properties. :lol: Definitely an alternative to Reflectix.

I'd be curious to hear feedback on its sound deadening properties if anyone has tried it.

Sun Nov 22, 2009 6:20 am

Stuff looks real interesting and maybe a better alternative to the typical "underhood" type insudlation. But it does not seem to be dense and that is one of the characteristics desired for good sound blocking.