TheSamba.com :: View topic - 1970 Bug... turns over wont start--- help

Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:28 pm

I'm the new girl in this world and just bought my first non-running car (1970 Bug).
The guy I bought it from said it stopped working in 2006 and has been sitting since. The wiring seems good (the head lights, hazards and radio work) the ignition was not hooked up so I fixed that... the engin turns over (and over and over) but it wont start. Cleaned out the old gas. Replaced the plugs and plug wires. Cleaned the carb. I replaced the compreser on the distributer (the distributer cap is new). New battery.
Still no spark. Checked resistance in the coil its 1.3-1.6 not sure if this is good or bad.

The air filter was filled with about 1/2 quart of motor oil (is this normal).
Turn signals and horn don't work but I think that has to do with the new steering wheel someone had put on. I think I just need to hook them up.
I'm putting all this in because it could be important and I just dont know.

Please help me out, does anyone know what would cause this?

Thanks,
Tru

Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:35 pm

Go ahead and replace your points inside of your distributor and make sure that the points are gapped properly .16 inches when open on the high point on the distributors cam. Also make sure the coil is good, pull the middle wire from the top of the distributor and hold it above a grounded piece of metal and see if you're getting spark from it..I'd try that..and timing it and see if that doesn't get it it start.

Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:57 pm

Do you have fuel getting to the carb when turning over? Have you tried gas in the carb to see if it starts there? Sounds like spark or fuel prob. I would check to make sure you are getting fuel to the pump and to the carb and beyond so your spark can ignite.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:47 am

PatterBon wrote: Go ahead and replace your points inside of your distributor and make sure that the points are gapped properly .16 inches when open on the high point on the distributors cam.

That's 0.016 inches, not 0.16 inches !!!!

Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:59 am

A shot of "starting fluid" to the air intake may help out. If it starts up after giving it a shot, then you can assume the electrical is okay & you have a fuel delivery problem. Good luck.

jlex.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:38 am

does it have fuel

Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:55 am

Yes it has gas and I have shot starter fluid into the carb (the carb was super dirty before I took it off and cleaned it). Checked the coil yesterday and was told its good. Have not got spark at the plugs yet... I am going to replace the brand new dist cap cause I wonder if its the issue.

I sure wish someone who knew more than me lived in the SLC Valley who could take a look at it.

I love all the feed back and will keep trying everything suggested!

Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:29 am

Since you replaced the cap and moved wires, are you sure your firing order is correct?? Read this thread, especially page 2. It might help you out...similar issue and the problem was resolved.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=362178&highlight=spark+plug+order

Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:36 am

Tru:
Here's a link to a really good troubleshooting article. Tells you what to do step by step if your car's turning over, but won't start...
http://www.vw-resource.com/car_wont_start.html#rotates

Sounds like you're narrowing it down to the ignition system. Keep at it, you'll figure it out (be sure to let us know what it was).

Welcome to the forum!

jlex.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:33 pm

On the airfilter. If it is an oil bath filter it should have oil in it. Post a pic or look for some pics of oil bath filters.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:28 pm

I had the same issue on a 71 Super than had been sitting for a couple years. My guru took some fine grit sandpaper to the points and it fired right up. Do that or replace the points. That's what I'm betting on.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:13 pm

I consulted the manual when I rewired the dist cap .. so I know they are in the right location for firing order but I wonder if the cap is right. It was new and on the car when I bought it, and it seems big. I am going to look when I get home if it showes any sign that the "thingy" is spining in the middle.

I loved the artical... I'm so glad I found this fourm ... you're all so helpful... With out it I would have rippen my hair out! I really only work on my scooters so this is all new to me.

I will take photos of the air filter... But it does look like a filter you keep forever. It sits in what looks like the original housing (like an 10 inch ovel dish you would cook a small ham in).

Talk to me more about the "points" I assume they are the 4 copper looking things inside the dist cap, right? The cap is new so its still clean inside.

Thanks again, Tru.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:58 pm

While you are taking pics of the filter, post some of the distributor and engine bay and we can see if anything stands out. Lots of answers on these forums are answered from people posting pictures!

Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:08 pm

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/electrical/electrical_common/distributors.cfm

You haven't mentioned what dist. you have, but the link above will show you what points are.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:09 pm

heyyouej wrote: I consulted the manual when I rewired the dist cap .. so I know they are in the right location for firing order but I wonder if the cap is right. It was new and on the car when I bought it, and it seems big. I am going to look when I get home if it showes any sign that the "thingy" is spining in the middle.

I loved the artical... I'm so glad I found this fourm ... you're all so helpful... With out it I would have rippen my hair out! I really only work on my scooters so this is all new to me.

I will take photos of the air filter... But it does look like a filter you keep forever. It sits in what looks like the original housing (like an 10 inch ovel dish you would cook a small ham in).

Talk to me more about the "points" I assume they are the 4 copper looking things inside the dist cap, right? The cap is new so its still clean inside.
Thanks again, Tru.

The points are little discs. They are under the distributor cap, not on the cap. Where the rotor is (the thing that looks like a pointer on the top of the shaft under the cap) follow the shaft down and you will see a spring loaded arm to one side of the shaft. Those are the points on the end of the arm. As the shaft turns with the engine, 4 high spots ( cam ) push the arm / points apart at the right time to give a spark, through the rotor, through the cap, to the correct spark plug wire to the correct spark plug. Their condition and gap when they're open are imperitive to make it run properly. You should be able to follow the wire inside the distributor to the point assembly. That wire also goes to the little can on the side, outside the distributor. That is your condenser. The condenser serves as an electrical cushion so when the points open up they don't arc and burn.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:16 pm

The points are not in the distributor cap, they are in the actual distributor which is what the cap connects to. Take the cap off and you will be looking into the distributor. Remove the rotor on top and you will see the points. Get your 19mm wrench and rotate the crankshaft by turning the nut on the alternator pulley. You should see the points opening and closing. If not, then you have found your problem. If they are moving, then get some fine grit sandpaper and gently rub it on the points.

Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:37 pm

The filter sounds like an oil bath from your description and it should have oil in it. The air flows down through the oil then up throught the top of the filter which should have holes on the bottom of it. Through these holes you should see a fibrous material. The rapid change in air direction forces the particulates into the oil because they can't change direction as quickly as the less dense air. It really is ingenious even though a pain to clean. Pictures will make certain.

For a starting guide on points this might help you out. http://www.vw-resource.com/tune-up.html Go down to the distributor section, there is a picture that should look familiar. There is a small arm that looks like it should pivot back and forth. At the end of that arm is a metal contact that hits a similar contact on a non-moving post. Those two contacts are the "points" make sure they are clean and when fully seperated the distance between them is .016" You should do this with a feeler guage.

Once you know what you are looking at it shouldn't take long to check. Let us know if that doesn't help.

How did you test the coil? It can be good but not working because it is not getting power. After the sun has gone down a little do the following. Have someone crank the car over while you are at the engine. You will remove the center wire from the dist cap which should go to the coil. Hold it slightly above where you disconnected it and you should see sparks arcing across. I don't know how safe this is but it is a simple way to see if power is getting from the coil to the distributor. If it is arcing then power is good at least up to the distributor.

Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:23 am

I took the coil into Tunex and they checked it sait it was good. He also gave me a new one to take home and try. I was too busy last night to try the new one. But will be working on the car this weekend.

Sorry for not telling you what distributer I have.... it's cause I didn't know there were so many!!!! Thats crazy!
I still dont know how to gap the distributer even after all the great explinations you've all given me. For under $100 bucks I can get a new one... would it come pre-gapped?

Fri Oct 16, 2009 8:52 am

If you are going to replace something, replace the points not the whole distributor. I would hate to see you drop all that cash for a simple fix. Did you look at this link? http://www.vw-resource.com/tune-up.html#distributor It will talk you through the whole procedure. Steps 9 and on have a great illustration of how to adjust the points. You should get some feeler gauges regardless because you will use them for all kinds of work on your beetle. The point gaps should be checked during tune ups, so I would advise learning how to check them.

Just dive in and keep asking questions...learn by doing! We will help you through it.

Fri Oct 16, 2009 9:04 am

One other idea would be to find a local VW shop (http://www.thesamba.com/vw/shops/search.php) and take your distributor to them and see if they will show you how to work on it. Lots of shops are willing to help.