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Sat Oct 17, 2009 10:58 am

Quote: Didnt end up replacing the 4 hoses. I got the temp 2 in and added new points. Re-connected all of the hoses and now she purrs like a kitten. Took her on a drive through the neighborhood and it has alot of power. Runs real well. Im very happy. Going to Swap out the fuel filter tomorrow and start working on some of the cosmetics.

awsome.

Pull the wheels in the rear, loosen the small bolts on the drums if they are still there. See how much lining you have remaining and while there put some penetrating oil on the stars and make sure they turn. If you pull the starts and adjusting bolts off, wire brush or glass bead them and lube the threads with a grease like disc brake bearing grease or the mixture like Randy suggested. Then put the drums and wheels back on and adjust them. VW rears are not self adjusting. Then check your emergency brake. If the rears are adjusted and you have too much freeplay in the E brake still, the adjuster on a 1977 is under the shifter area. While you are there, if this is a manual trans, check to see if the plastic bushing is still in the housing where the front of the shift shaft goes. That style is common to lose that bushing.

Sat Oct 17, 2009 12:03 pm

The best place to start a brake adjustment is section 8 of the Bentley manual :P

If it's an unknown bus I like to back off all the adjusters to zero and start again with equal turns on each, it's also good to back off the E brake cables and adjust them last, who knows what a PO has done?

Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:12 pm

will check, feels like the E brake isnt even hooked up. Got all the surface rust off the front floor panel today and got a coat of primer over along with changing the Fuel filter. Removed the seats scrubbed every corner removed all rust there as well.The filter was dirty but no rust particles were in it.....Lunch break :P

Sat Oct 17, 2009 4:54 pm

You are doing OK there. A bus that has not been properly serviced can be a bit of work when you first get to it.

Driving these buses is like being married to a beautiful woman, they are a maintence item but worth it in the long run.

I like to adjust those rear brakes about every other oil change to make sure they will haul you down in very short order if you need it and properly adjusted rears really help. Keepn mind that if you are ever in an accident, you are likely the first one there.

You want the e-brake to hold the bus with about 4 clicks on the pull.

BTW, I really enjoyed the "Lucky Lab". That other Portland is really a nice place. Named after Portland, Maine you know.

http://www.itinerant-air-cooled.com/viewtopic.php?t=2812

Sat Oct 17, 2009 5:06 pm

I put some progress photos here: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#/album.php?aid=2033000&id=1109044292

Sun Oct 18, 2009 6:01 pm

Looks like i need a battery and an alternator. The battery was dead today, charged it drove it through the neighborhood then it died, luckily in front of my house. Hooked it up to the charger, started right up, died shortly after I took it off the charger. Im going to get a new battery and an alternator see how that works.

Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:20 pm

I would wait on the alternator unless you suspect it is bad. A bad battery won't take a charge and an alternator won't run right unless a battery has a charge as it depends upon the battery for the field voltage. A generator like early VW's can run with no battery once it starts but not an alternator.

Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:47 pm

So are you saying it sounds like a generator? the battery holds a charge, it stayed charged for a 3-4 days of starting the vehicle, and one trip around the neighborhood. It was just today that it wouldnt go, until I charged the battery for about a half hour, then I was able to make it several blocks before the bus died. Confused.

Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:15 pm

If your engine is a 77 FI, you have an alternator, not a generator.

Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:32 pm

That earlier post confused the hell out of me, it sounded like he was saying I had a bad generator only i had just been staring at the alternator so i know it has an alternator:P.

I am 99% sure its the alternator. I can get the batterey to hold a charge, it loses the charge when driving, has to be the alternator, not the battery. Ill find our on pay day after the new alternator goes in, ill slap in a new belt while im there.

Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:35 pm

bjjpdx wrote: So are you saying it sounds like a generator? the battery holds a charge, it stayed charged for a 3-4 days of starting the vehicle, and one trip around the neighborhood. It was just today that it wouldnt go, until I charged the battery for about a half hour, then I was able to make it several blocks before the bus died. Confused.

A battery is not likely to die in one trip around the block after holding a charge for several days. It sounds like you have a bad connections somewhere that opened up due to vibration and use..

Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:43 pm

Maybe, Ill mess around with the connections and see what happens. It was a little more than just around the block i drove it around the neighborhood for a few minutes. Im just assuming that starting it and turning it off along with letting it sit and run while I made adjustments may have been enough to drain it over three days with a full charge and no alternator. On a 10-20 minute charge it made it around the neighborhood (8-9 blocks each run) twice before it died.

thanks for the tips, I will follow battery cables and clean the connections up with sand paper and see what happens.

Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:58 am

Also clean the connections at the alternator and floow those to where it plugs into the voltage regulator.

When I go under there to clean connections, I like to take my dremel tool with wire brush head with me on an extension cord. Remove wire, clean both surfaces, reattach.

Afte you get done with thtat, stick your volt meter on the battery and read the number. Then fire up the bus and read it again and see what changes.

Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:16 pm

I think I have most of the problems fixed. One last problem to find.

The bus runs strong once I have been running it for a while say 15 minutes or so around town it starts to shudder while running or die ideling. I can keep it running as long if I want if I push the pedal when it starts bogging out running or ideling. I can get it to idle at a constant RPM for a good 30 minutes or so in the garage then it will cut a little then resume idle, cut a little and resume, then cut altogether.

I think it is one of 3 things or a combination of

1. EGR Valve
2. Fuel pump issue
3. Dirty or old injectors.

I just filled it up today with 92 and added some techron fuel system cleaner.

I do not think it is a vaccum issue as this week I replaced all of the vaccum hoses, I also put in a new temp II sensor, new plugs, points, Battery, Alternator, and put in some new oil.

I am going to start by researching the EGR valve and locating it in the bus, and I am going to research if its possible to manually clean the injectors. I have not checked the injector seals, and that could be a possiblity.

This has been a fun first week to VW's. Seriously really really fun I did not think i would enjoy fixing it this much (even though I have to remove the alternator again and deal with the washer that is causing the light to come on LOL). Every one here has been awsome help.

any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly welcomed.

Thanks.

Sat Oct 24, 2009 8:20 pm

Go with the cheap fixes first.....

Seal off the EGR valve set up unless you need it for emissions. A Coke can is your friend when used with gasket sealer.

$5 will get you all 8 new injector seals. For < $100 you can get your injectors cleaned and calibrated with new seals at www.cruzinpermance.com or witchhunter. Both do a nice job.

Change out the fuel filter for $5 and see if that helps any.

Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:03 pm

Karl , rest his soul, did a post on the egrs few years before he died and said that from experience on many engine failures he was involved with testing the cause of, without the egr FI engines in bays and Vanagons are prone to detonation. We had ours rebuilt and it functions normally. That said if you want yours rebuilt the place is called BugMania and they are in San Carlos CA. They often have a thread here on the Samba. Best guess is that 5 to 7 out of 10 EGR cores are really pretty junky. There are two seats in them and a diaphram. One seat closes at idle and the other near wide open throttle. If the diaphram or the side that closes at idle are bad, then the engine will not idle right. The plenum has a tube from the EGR in it and that is often filled with carbon too. I went through 5 plenums to find one good one that wasn't erroded away in the EGR area, and about 10 EGR valves to get 3 good cores to work from. If you can't rebuild it right now ($250), seal it off with a plate. Scott at German Supply sells one premade. New EGRs and the rebuild kits have been NLA since the late 1980's. The guy in San Carlos's (I believe father) was a long time VW mechanic and he has a lot of them he collected plus the correct material for the diaphrams that will tolerate the gasoline, fumes and heat.

Your shuddering can be any of the items you mentioned. The only way to really know is to put an air to fuel meter on it and see what the A/F ratio is doing at the time it is shuddering. You can also put a fuel pressure gauge on one of the rails and verify whether the fuel pressure is dropping or not.

There are two screws that affect idle speed and mixture. The big one on the throttle body lets more air go past the throttle plate so it is like a speed screw on a carb. More air means faster idle. The one on the top of the afm controls how much air is allowed to leak around the door that swings to tell the ECU how much fuel to inject. The more you screw it out, the leaner the mixture gets as the more air goes through its own unmetered passage. The more you screw it in, the more air is forced through the door so the more it opens and the richer the mixture is. My 1977 idles best by tach and ear at an idle mixture of about 12.5:1 but that is too rich to pass smog. It needs to be much leaner at about 14.0:1 to pass smog. Once I get much leaner than 14.0:1 it starts to hunt more in RPM at idle. If you are going to keep this bus I strongly recomend getting some kind of a wide band Air fuel meter to set up the FI. I am amazed at how much ours was off from optimal and how much better it runs tuned right. We bought an Innovate LM-1 off craigslist. Tuners buy these things and then don't need them anymore once their motors are tuned so they come up often. We were lucky in that someone had one they never had used and we got it for a really good price.

I am running points in my distributor because it is too much trouble to troubleshoot a bad electronic ignition in the middle of the night on a country road. They often start to intermittently fail when they first go bad and that causes symptoms like yours. If you are running an electronic ignition you might look there too.

Last - the fuel pumps are cooled by the gasoline that they are constantly pumping. I think if the fuel pump were bad you would also see the problem at load as well.

If you want to clean and test your injectors we sent ours to WitchHunter Performance and they did a great job. The ECU and AFM can be tested by sending it to Fuel Injection Corporation in Livermore CA.

If you haven't replaced the o-rings on the injectors I strongly suggest you do that as they can be a big source of sporadic vacuum leaks.

Also - if the PCV valve on top of the breather goes bad it allows unmetered air into the engine and that can cause some weird issues. They are only available used. If you plug off one port with your thumb and suck on the other it should hold a vacuum. Or you can suck on the tiny hole on the top and it should hold a vacuum. If it doesn't the diaphram is torn and you will need to locate a used one. If you try to clean them do not use anything except gasoline, kerosene or stoddard solvent outdoors.

Sat Oct 24, 2009 10:47 pm

Thank you for the info. I definitely plan on keepiong it and I need to pass smog. I tried the other day and my O2 was about double the allowable for non catalyc.

I do not have an electric ignition, so definitely not that. I also replaced the fuel filter first thing. I will replace the injector seals and see if that helps. and I will look for a air to fuel meter.

This is a pictue of the EGR i got off ratwells. In case any one else end up with similair issues and wonders where it is

ill let you know how it turns out. I really really want to drive this bus for a long time.

Sun Oct 25, 2009 7:55 am

Ummmm..... that picture shows a distributor and a cold start valve. the EGR valve is at the left front of the plenum on a 77+ bus.

Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:20 am

There are a couple of guys with LM1's in the Portland area and they are on the Itinerant Air Cooled Forums. Post over there to ask for help.

The PCV valve is just to the RIGHT in your picture.

One thing I see in your picture is the use of screw type cheapo gas line clamps. You should change those out to the proper German Fuel Injection clamps available from German Supply. Why? Those screw clamps eat into the fuel line caused a spraying fuel type leak and when they leak causing a engine fire.
Hopefully you have used the proper High Pressure Fuel injection hose too as the Ljet runs upto 42 psi in the fuel lines. You might consider using German Supplys fuel line replacement kit which has all the hoses including the short ones for the injectors which is where most leaks occur.
Engine fires is a big problem with these FI engines so hose maintenance is a must.

I would guess you have a vacuum leak at the injector O rings as the missing starts when the engine is warmed up...common problem on old engines.

Sun Oct 25, 2009 9:10 am

Ill change the O rings monday hopefully thats the problem as it sounds like an easy and inexpensive fix. The picture is not of my engine it is a picture of the same engine type but the picture was from ratwells.

I am confused where the EGR is then.

That picture I borrowed from ratwells led me to beleive it wat the part with the blue connector and the two hoses 1 coming out each side.