TheSamba.com :: View topic - Urgent: need answers today for 77 Bus purchase

Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:18 am

I have Three questions I need answered in the worst way. I am buying the 77 fuel injected tintop bay/westy conversion from FL in the classified. He says he ran it in '07 and has since drained it. He said he was afraid the gas varnished. Any tips for removing a 78 engine fom a 77.

1: How long does it take for gas to varnish? I have let my school bus sit for 5 years before and it would start right up and run fine. I did have to clean the carburator before it would start.

2: do you have to take the tank out to clean it? What if I put in the tank flush and towed it for a couple hundred miles(which I have to) and then flushed it with a garden hose. let it dry out, or used a blow dryer in the spout, or put in some gas treatment to burn the remaining water out of it. would that work? I just don't want to work on it that far from home and drag all the tools and stuff.

3: How many bolts are holding a 2000cc engine to the tranny of a 1700cc? I have taken all the wires loose, All four on the engine support, the lower two bolts on the tranny, and the one on the upper right(driverside) is loose and free but won't back out. Is there another bolt somewhere? Cuz I am ready to lower the engine and it won't come out. Any suggestions on how to get the upper bolt out would be appreciated also.

Thanx, TH

Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:26 am

When was the gas drained? Shortly after it was parked two years ago, or recently?

I'd say the best way to clean the tank is to drop it, but I don't see what would be hurt by trying to slosh some stuff around in there for a couple hundred miles of towing drain that and see what happens, other than maybe a clogged fuel filter and wasting some time/money.

The engine is mated to the trans by four bolts. I think the fourth one you need to find is one of the two that holds the starter on. I can't remember for sure, but I think it is the upper of the two.

Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:52 am

I trust you have been here?

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/EngineRemoval.html

Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:54 am

1. Gas can "go bad" in 6 months, not sure if it will go all the way to varnish or not in that time. Probably not.

2. Maybe, try it, good luck. If it doesn't work, it's easy to remove the tank, especially since you already have the engine coming out. do it now and you'll thank yourself later. Look in there for rust and varnish when it is out, and replace all the hoses (vapor splices too). Do all that while it is out is highly recommended, or you will just be sorry that you didn't later on.

3. I'm not 100% positive about a 77, but on a 78 there are 4 bolts holding the engine to tranny and 2 more hanging the whole mess to the frame at the top of the bell housing (you can see these from above, but not below)... AND the engine mount at the rear of the engine (engine "bearer bar" or "bearing bar" aka "moustach bar"), which is attached via 6 easily-accessible 8mm bolts (13mm socket). So all told, 12 bolts.

That upper bolt by the starter doesn't have a hex head on the forward side, it's a D-shaped head. The flat part of the D stops against a casting in the tranny housing. It helps to have a buddy pushing that one IN from under the bus while you crank the nut off from the top side. If it slips forward as you turn the nut, it will slip past that flat spot and it will just spin. You gotta hold it down while you turn the nut, or turn the nut without pushing on it, but that is not always easy to do. Maybe if you keep pulling it back as you go to keep it engaged to the flat spot.

Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:02 am

I will add my usual patter here: it is ridiculously easy to remove the gas tank without touching the engine (and only removing a handful of things on top) for cleaning. I did it, as have a lot of others. If you need help, PM me for a walkthrough. Otherwise I'd add CHANGE ALL THE FUEL AND VAPOR HOSES NOW. German Supply has a great kit if you need it. (germansupply.com)

Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:07 am

Agreed. I also removed my gas tank with engine in - many thanks to Traveling Writer's tips! It was no big deal.

But... since you are pulling the engine anyway, it's EVEN EASIER to do it at that time. And yes, change all those splices. I don't think you even need a kit, get a couple feet of quarter-inch fuel hose from the local parts store and you're covered. And I'd suggest some penetrating oil to help you get the old ones off with minimal frustration. DO IT!

Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:35 pm

Ok let me clarify in general to everyone at once.

No I have never been to that site.

The engine I'm pulling is in my 72 westy. I am driving to FL tomorrow or wednesday to buy the 77 tintop westy conversion. I am pulling mine now so I can have the tank clean when I get there. I am towing the bus to my property 2 & 1/2 hours north of Orlando where the bus is and camping until I change the tanks out(hence the cleaner and towing question). Thanks for the bolt info.

I will pm you for the change without engine removal.

If I wasn't scared of getting stuck somewhere I would take the Greyhound and save on gas back and forth. Gas both ways plus one more back is my concern. I have the price of the bus. And I can tow it on flat ground. But my four cylinder s-10 would die towing it through the mountains. I had loaned money out to a couple of friends and getting it back fast enough is the issue. I already hocked some stuff to get up gas money and I am still short. I may have to camp until the 1st or 3rd to have enough to get home. Oh well two week vacation.

Thank You Thank You on all the info!

I'll check back later, TH

Mon Oct 19, 2009 3:39 pm

This doesn't necessarily "clarify" anything for me, but it sounds epic if not a little crazy. You're towing one bus down and picking up a different one? Then how do you get home with 3 vehicles?

Take some road trip pics and good luck. Don't forget to have some dipstick hot dogs while you're camping.

Mon Oct 19, 2009 5:25 pm

I think he is pulling his tank to put in the FL bus?? Sorta vague..

If I was swapping 2 tanks out in a week, I would learn to do it with the engine in.. Its pretty straightforward as you have already heard. Just work it out leading the drivers side of the tank out first and work it out over the 3/4 side. You gotta drop the cooling fan, remove the FI (or carbs which is even easier), the coil and anything else in the way. You'll be great at it after a couple of times.

Ballsy trip for someone to undertake that has never dropped a motor.. Epic indeed. Enjoy the camping and driving the bus.. good luck.. Print out the AIRS list for your treck just in case..

Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:24 pm

I don't understand the need to haul a gas tank all that way and swap it out just in case. If it ran in 2007, the gas could indeed have gone stale, but that's unlikely to gum anything up or destroy the tank. Just drain it, put a little fresh gas in, and drain some again to see what you get. If it's rusty you may have to stock up on cheap fuel filters for the trip back home, but odds are it's fine.

Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:58 pm

I'm with Zeen. My bus had been idled for way longer than 2 years and I just put gas in it and a battery and drove it home. I did however know its history pretty well.

Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:45 pm

Your '72 tank is not a drop in for the '75 and later FI'ed models, it takes a bit of work to make the earlier tank work in a FI'ed rig. I would not be worried about the gas varnishing except for the dregs that were left in the bottom of the tank once it was drained. A little carb/FI cleaner added with your new fuel should take care of that.

Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:05 pm

vwwestyman wrote: When was the gas drained? Shortly after it was parked two years ago, or recently?

I'd say the best way to clean the tank is to drop it, but I don't see what would be hurt by trying to slosh some stuff around in there for a couple hundred miles of towing drain that and see what happens, other than maybe a clogged fuel filter and wasting some time/money.

The engine is mated to the trans by four bolts. I think the fourth one you need to find is one of the two that holds the starter on. I can't remember for sure, but I think it is the upper of the two.

The soon to be PO swears it smelled of varnish, but the gas was drained a few weeks ago and it was in there since sometime in 07'. So less than two years. But I'm taking the tank from the 72 with me already cleaned and ready to go in. But, you can read that in another post; another reply I was already working on.

Thanks, TH

Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:15 pm

I can't tell what tank or engine is going where, but WT is right about one thing: a fuel tank from a non-FI bus will not just hook right up to an FI engine. You're missing a return line, for one thing.

Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:29 pm

Wildthings wrote: Your '72 tank is not a drop in for the '75 and later FI'ed models, it takes a bit of work to make the earlier tank work in a FI'ed rig. I would not be worried about the gas varnishing except for the dregs that were left in the bottom of the tank once it was drained. A little carb/FI cleaner added with your new fuel should take care of that.

Hey Wildthings,

Ooopsy, I didn't know that. Thanks that cuts that work out til I get back then. I didn't read all these right away. I had to jump off and wait for a phone call. I was working offline to answer all I came to so my next post will have flaws, since i'm posting this now.

And to all of you who say go and put gas and cleaner in it? Are you sure it will be ok. I could fly down or greyhound it cheaper than all the gas for the truck both ways. I just don't want to get stuck in the guys driveway. I guess I could get a cab to buy it and a tow to a campground to pull the tank if its fouled. I was just worried about screwing up the engine and fuel lines with sludge or crap if I tried the gas and fuel treatment method. It won't will it?

I have plenty fuel lines and filters in my tool box. All the metric tools and plug wrench. I have extensions and differebt sizes of socket sets. I'll pack them instead of food. I'm good to go either way if necessary.

Answer back I'll be back to check on y'alls answers.

Thanks again so much, TH

Mon Oct 19, 2009 10:36 pm

This is what I was working on: I'll be back in the morning. Nite, Nite! Thanks all!!!! :D

No! Like Kevin said: "I was vague," because I am stressed for time. I was in a hurry when I wrote both of those previous posts. Sorry, and thanks for reminding me about the hotdawgs. But, more likely would be brats and a beer. I need to get everything packed and the tank out of the 72 so I can take it with me. Already cleaned when I arrive; as I have nowhere to dispose of the mess properly and it will be quicker if I get that done now. It also gives me more time to collect the gas money from my friends. I have to be there by thursday. Or the guy selling it will put it back up in the classified. (Yeah...I just got $40 out of $75 one friend owed me. They just dropped by.)

Also I have pulled the 1700cc that was in the 72 originally and put in the 2000cc thats in it now. But that was ten years ago and a lot of braincells ago(Bentley wasn't real clear, couldn't find my Hanes.) I had a fella helping me the last time that knew VW's as well. And after it was mentioned that the bolt on the alternator was D shaped I remember buying that bugger because it was buggered up when we finally got it out. I think it was stripped. I recycled it.

I am pulling my tank in the morning and doing the treatment to the tank. Then I will wash it out wednesday before we leave and let the air dry it in the back of the truck. My neighbor and my brother Dan helped me get it tore apart yesterday. I still need to know why the top right bolt won't come out. Its loose and freely turns but, we can't get it to pull out. Does it shove through from the back like the D bolt? I needed to pull the engine to fix the seals anyway, so its inevitable.

Thanks For all the help. Sorry not specific enough previously. I have time to type now. I am stoked. Not a big adventure at all. I used to drive big rigs. I have driven across country to camp many times. This is normal. I had to work on my Jeep in AZ in 98. I have a driver and a helper who knows american engines and the like. I don't have to pay for camping. If I can switch it out fast and I have the gas money I can be home in a few days. If not I'm packing cans and other food in an ice chest(Deer Steaks and stew meat) and a couple of hundred foot extensions so I can buy some juice from a neighbor. And I'll goto the beach and chill. My Neice lives in SC right off 26 and 95 and thats on the way back. Its a win win deal if you ask me. I can't wait to have my ass in a VW again rolling down the highway.

I still plan on fixing my girl but, she will have to wait awhile. I would still like to blast her, paint her gray, and put the glass back in this year. I appreciate all the advice guys; really. I am gonna check out that site and read the rest of these posts and then hit the sack. Busy day tomorrow. I'm gonna print out all the directions and stuff from the pm's and the posts and take 'em with me. So anything that strikes your mind that I might need tool wise or gasket or seal wise or whatever, lay it on me. I will take 2 gig of pictures. Is that a lot on a camera? Thats my size disk.

Thanks again, TH

PS. And I got the PM from Traveling Writer saved and I'll burn it to CD and print it at the library tomorrow. Thanx, TW

Mon Oct 19, 2009 11:19 pm

Puhleez TH?

Just one more chapter before you turn in...maybe some pics of your sister? your neice? maybe tell us more about your big rig days? 2 gigs is nothing on a digi cam Brutha.....peace on bro!

Puhleez TH?

Add in the chapter about how you plan to hitch down to FL with a gas tank in your back pack...how the fumes almost killed your pet hamster that was in your shirt pocket, but you saved mini me with some mouth-2-mouth...is he still with us? and then you had to sell the gas tank and the hamster for a bowl of granola, just because you realized you hate kissing hamsters?

Puhleez TH?

can you tell us more about your 'lost' friend in Kentucky that knows everything about engines? you just saw him but you don't know where he is? take him with you FL! and if all else fails you can take one of your extension cords and hang the both of yuse.....Oh yeah, try NOT to run full speed when you take 'pitchers'. (they come out blurry) remember?

Puhleez just one more chapter TH?

OH.....and those Brauts WILL need an injection of 20-50 for proper Tree Huggin' VW taste...

Use the Dijon Mustard.

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:04 am

Quote: Puhleez TH?

Just one more chapter before you turn in...maybe some pics of your sister? your neice? maybe tell us more about your big rig days? 2 gigs is nothing on a digi cam Brutha.....peace on bro!

Puhleez TH?

Add in the chapter about how you plan to hitch down to FL with a gas tank in your back pack...how the fumes almost killed your pet hamster that was in your shirt pocket, but you saved mini me with some mouth-2-mouth...is he still with us? and then you had to sell the gas tank and the hamster for a bowl of granola, just because you realized you hate kissing hamsters?

Puhleez TH?

can you tell us more about your 'lost' friend in Kentucky that knows everything about engines? you just saw him but you don't know where he is? take him with you FL! and if all else fails you can take one of your extension cords and hang the both of yuse.....Oh yeah, try NOT to run full speed when you take 'pitchers'. (they come out blurry) remember?

Puhleez just one more chapter TH?

OH.....and those Brauts WILL need an injection of 20-50 for proper Tree Huggin' VW taste...

=D>

Great googely moogely that's funny...

Tue Oct 20, 2009 10:34 am

Yes, that was good. :lol:

Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:45 pm

73kombi wrote: Blah, Blah, Blah...

Kombi77,

I am gonna try and ignore your posts from now on. Its obvious at this point you can't help yourself. I think you have ASD(Anti Social Disorder). It means you don't work and play well with others. I am sorry you have a problem with me or my posts. However, thats not my fault nor my problem. *If my posts upset you so much what compells you to read them and answer them so negatively?

I searched for a weblink for you. Maybe they can help you deal with your anger management issues and perhaps OCD(*Obsessive Compulsive Disorder). All the Oregon facilities are listed so you can pick the closest one to your home where ever that maybe. Its a job listing but, it has their addresses and phone numbers.

Psychiatric Treatment Facilities: Oregon

http://www.healthcarehiring.com/psychiatric-hospitals/oregon/0/

Good Luck and goodbye, TH