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Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:26 am

I am pretty good with problems I can touch and see. However, with electrics I am ignorant. Is there somewhere I can be pointed to learn 79 FI Westy wiring for someone that does not know much about it? I have the Bentley with pretty colored coded spaghetti that when I look at it I glaze over. I dont want someone to do my work for me, I just need some guidance on how to learn to trace why my rear tail lights and side lights dont work when everything else does and to understand where stuff goes and why. I have checked the search areas but nothing directly on point. If I need to go to a community college to learn basic electricity then tell me. Thanks in advance.

Jack

Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:43 am

Shouldn't be too hard, go to the FLAPS and invest in a test light (looks like a pointy screwdriver with a clear handle and a wire coming out the end of the handle). Connect the clip on the end of the wire to a clean unpainted part of the buses structure so it grounds (a bolt head will do) and touch the pointy tip of it to the metal clips that hold fuses #7 and #9, if it lights up you have just tested the light, now test #1 and #2 the same way while the lights are turned on, test both clips on each end of the fuse.

Report your findings here.

Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:27 am

A volt meter is handy.

So is this website....

http://www.nls.net/mp/volks/

I also use a long 12 gauge wire with alligator clips soldered on both sides to serve as a "good ground" that I just attach to the battery "-" side and then touch the "not working fixture" to see if that is the problem. Usually it is. Then I fix the ground to the lights..

Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:06 am

Thanks for the quick reply. I am getting to my Sears Volt meter as we speak, testing every bloody electrical outlet in the house. I'll get on your suggestions tomorrow after the Bonnie Raitt concert tonight. And by FLAPS I assume that is a local auto parts store or just a generic term? We have NAPA, O Reilly's and Advance Auto around here. Thanks again and I will be back with the results.

Jack

Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:18 am

Friendly (or any other F word) Local Auto Parts Store :wink:

Could be grounds as Randy says, but it's odd that all the lights are out, that's why I suggest testing at the fuse box for power.

Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:27 am

Agreed about the test light - invaluable for $2. And the voltmeter. Hopefully you got a volt (multi)meter with a sonic (makes a beep) continuity tester. That lets you see if things are connected to eachother - very handy for tracking down open circuits (something that's not connected that should be). Look into using that feature.

If your meter doesn't have a sonic continuity tester, you can use the OHMS (horseshoe symbol) setting. Set it to the highest setting. (If it's digital) it should read "1" - then touch the leads together, it should read zero. That's what should happen if you touch something that's supposed to be connected to something else. Just play with it, you'll get the hang of it.

Also, old VW parts usually have rust, corrosion, paint or grease all over them. Make sure you scratch a bare/clean spot or just rub your test leads well enough to really connect. A little paint or rust is enough to prevent an electrical connection. Make connections bright/clean/metallic!

Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:40 pm

Randy in Maine wrote:
I also use a long 12 gauge wire with alligator clips soldered on both sides to serve as a "good ground" that I just attach to the battery "-" side and then touch the "not working fixture" to see if that is the problem. Usually it is. Then I fix the ground to the lights..

That is a great idea!!! I have taken the route of fixing all grounds, but I am sure that I end up fixing things that aren't broke. I will put this method into practice.

Thanks

Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:11 am

Oh Busdaddy, I meant to say that all of the tail lights (turns, back up, hazards) work. It was just the regular tail lights when the switch was pulled out that did not light up. I'm checking the grounds/contacts this afternoon. Will report back.

Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:19 am

All the more reason to confirm they are getting power from the front first, check at the fuse box.

Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:17 am

Mountain Minstrel wrote: Randy in Maine wrote:
I also use a long 12 gauge wire with alligator clips soldered on both sides to serve as a "good ground" that I just attach to the battery "-" side and then touch the "not working fixture" to see if that is the problem. Usually it is. Then I fix the ground to the lights..

That is a great idea!!! I have taken the route of fixing all grounds, but I am sure that I end up fixing things that aren't broke. I will put this method into practice.

Thanks

Another little tip from when I had to do some work on a Lucas wiring system (and we are using the term liberally).....

If you have a short that blows fuses immediately, 2 alligator clips soldered to a a wire with a 2 pole turnsignal flasher soldered in the middle of the wire will give you some time to figure out just what in that circuit has a short. Personally I start at the fixtures that do not work.

Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:37 am

Randy in Maine wrote: when I had to do some work on a Lucas wiring system (and we are using the term liberally)......

OOooohhhh, you're brave!

Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:27 pm

http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/610470.jpg[img]
BusDaddy and Randy, here is a picture of the back of my fuse box. I dont seem to have any power coming to the #1 and #2 contacts. The gray wire with the blue female clip is hot for about 12v with the key on and lights on. I tried putting it on either the # 1 or #2 blade but the wire got HOT HOT. I took it off. Either way, I am still not getting power to the tail light lightl. I have all the other lights, turns, hazard, tag etc.
Yes, I got a test light and no it does not light up on the fusebox contacts with the key on and the lights. Suggestions?? Thanks.

Jack[/img]

Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:29 pm

Great, now I screwed the pic up. It is in the 68-79 Camper category. will try to reload it.

Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:30 pm

Geez, it's in my gallery. Sorry for the confusion.

Sat Oct 24, 2009 2:40 pm

Twin to my bus!

79CA P-27!

Life is pretty good isn't it?

Got one of these? Very handy!

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=576723

Sat Oct 24, 2009 3:03 pm

What you have is a short on fuse #1 which is the drivers side rear tail light and side marker light.

#2 is the other parking lights, right rear taillight and marker and the license plate light.

Do this.

Pull out the camper battery and have a look at the connections going to the left (drivers side lights) and make sure that the ground wires and power wires are not mixed up. It is hard to see in there, but you need to clean all of those connections and make sure the crimp connections are good and tight.

Then you are going to do the same thing to the right side lights and the parking lights.

Something is not right.

Here is another tip....invest in a good set of open barrel crimpers and get some connections from this guy. They are sweet and what VW used when these things were new. Worth every nickel.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=338938&highlight=connections

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=786757

Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:11 pm

o jackstar wrote: I just need some guidance on how to learn to trace why my rear tail lights and side lights don't work when everything else does and to understand where stuff goes and why.
OK, the secret to successfully working on electrical is to develop the proper mindset. That is:
(1) all circuits are basically simple; it's the quantity of them which is complex. Thus, to keep simplicity, you need to temporarily ignore all circuits except the one you're working on.
(2) all circuits work the same way: power comes from the battery, passes through a switch device, continues on to a load of some kind, and then returns to the battery. If there is a break anywhere in this circuit, the flow of power stops. Note: sometimes the position of the load and switch are reversed. Doesn't matter. There may be more than one switch device in a circuit. All must be closed for power to flow. A fuse is a form of switch, for debugging purposes.

Repair of any circuit involves tracing this circuit path and finding where the power flow is interrupted. This is easily done with either a test light or a voltmeter. A test light is quick; a voltmeter gives you more specific information when you need it.

As one side of the battery is connected to the body of the bus (grounded), this makes a good place to reference all measurements to. So ground one end of your test light. Now, starting at the battery, touch the test light to all successive connections in the circuit you're debugging. When the light stops lighting up, you've found a break in the circuit. Fix it and continue. When the load starts operating properly, you're done.

If your circuit contains a fuse which continuously blows, replace it with a headlight bulb using a couple of jumper wires. This will provide a limited current to the circuit, allowing you to keep testing. If there is a short in the circuit, the headlight bulb will light up brightly. When you find and fix the short, it will dim or go out. At this point, put the fuse back in and continue.

As has been mentioned, the ground circuit through the bus body back to the battery is just as important as any other wire, to make a circuit work. Unfortunately, they are generally overlooked when evaluating a circuit problem. Don't - ground connections are responsible for a large percentage of all circuit problems.

The Bentley circuit diagrams look confusing, but remember the basics: power flows from the battery, through a switch to a load and then back to the battery. Just trace this path on the schematic.

Hope this helps.

TD

Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:00 pm

Okay, after 2 weeks of cussing and scratching my head, I broke down and called my electrician friend and he came over and trouble shot my problem. Come to find out all of you that were thinking short were correct. However, it turned out not to be the 30 year old wiring but the new sidemarker bulb holder that was shorting out. I remember there being a thread about a certain supplier having problems with their tail lights etc. and needed to go back and test them. I just got off the phone with them and a replacement is on its way. Thanks to all that lent a hand and/or a sympathetic ear.

Jack