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Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:21 am

OK, let me start with the obvious. 009s SUCK! A whole crate full of them wouldn't even make a good boat anchor because s**t floats. I have a 1984 Mexican Beetle. It has a 1914 MOFOCO engine with 042 heads, Weber IDF 40s, Monza exhaust, and up until yesterday, a 009 distributor. It has been set up this way for over two years. There have always been a couple "spots" where it just wouldn't run quite right, most noticeably 40-47 mph at cruising speed in fourth gear, about 2000-2200 rpm. After obtaining that speed and maintaining it, the engine would frequently cough and sneeze back through the carbs, but being that I never really jetted the carbs, (they are "out of the box"), I assumed it needed different jets. Now I've seen a million times on the samba and elsewhere "34 pict, 009, flat spot", but I wasn't running that carb and I didn't have the spot on accel from a stop, so I kinda dismissed it. But after reading many other articles, I have seen the light!

While cleaning out my garage last month, I came across all my old boxes of VW stuff, only to find I still had the original 205 ZB distributor, which although not the exact suffix reffered to in Bob Thomlinson's Weber Tech Guide, is the same series, and was regarded very highly in said book. So with the help of Google and the internet, I went on a three week search to find out more about what I had in my hand. Turns out, many people like this distributor as it is apparently very similar to the 1974 and later "Federal" model, if not the same. I also discovered that the IDFs on my car do indeed have vacuum advance ports. Bonus!

To cut to the chase, I mapped out the advance curve of the 009 before I removed it from the car, and found that at that cruising speed of 40-47, the timing was only advanced to 18 degrees! And there is 10 degrees of initial timing at idle. So, took the electronic ignition out of the 009 and intalled it in the 205 ZB, stuck it in the car and timed it the same as the 009, and fired it up with the strobe. At the same engine speed as above, the 205 is at 25-26 degrees, and I don't even have the vacuum can hooked up yet! Very excitedly I drove it to work this morning, didn't even wait for it to warm up, and I can tell all of you honestly ALL OF THE DRIVEABILITY HICCUPS ARE GONE!!! Makes you wonder how they sold all of us on the 009 to begin with.

So the point is, don't ever throw your original dist. away! Whatever it is, it is more than likely better than a 009. I will keep the 009 in my emergency kit with properly gapped points in case the electronic unit fails. I will also make a full map of the 009 curve, the 205 ZB curve without vacuum and with vacuum and I will post them on this thread for all to see. This will give everyone a comparison so they don't make the same mistake I made ten years ago!

Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:31 am

I have a drawer FULL of 009 distributors I've taken out over the last 15 years or so ! I agree.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:32 am

How are you measuring the timing while driving the car?

Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:36 am

Ghost Ride on the freeway!

Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:40 am

With 009 distributors, I think it also depends upon WHEN and WHERE they were made.

My two are from the mid-1970s and have been fine, operating since then. I do use standard points, not the 009 points, and haven't changed the condensor on each. And I static time them at 7.5 degrees BTDC. The carb is a Weber 40DCNF on DP 1835.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:42 am

Glenn wrote: How are you measuring the timing while driving the car?

So far, I'm not. I don't need to tell you, but a 009 is all mechanical, so engine speed is purely indicative of timing advance. However, once I get the vacuum advance working, I will run a vacuum guage inside the car so I can see speed on my tach and load on the vacuum guage. Then, with these figures I will mimick the engine load vs, speed with a Mighty Vac installed on the vac can. Because the engine won't actually be under load, there may be minute discrepencies in the advance curve, but it will really give some pretty solid numbers for comparison. If I had access to a dyno I would do it that way, but I don't.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:47 am

Cusser wrote: With 009 distributors, I think it also depends upon WHEN and WHERE they were made.

My two are from the mid-1970s and have been fine, operating since then. I do use standard points, not the 009 points, and haven't changed the condensor on each. And I static time them at 7.5 degrees BTDC. The carb is a Weber 40DCNF on DP 1835.

That is a good point. Mine is 10-12 years old and has always had an electronic ignition in it (Crane 700 series). It is possible that mine is junk, I don't remember where I got it or where it was made.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 11:55 am

Paul Windisch wrote: If I had access to a dyno I would do it that way, but I don't.

Graphs are nice, but without being able it interpret them and relate the findings to real life... they a useless.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:00 pm

Glenn wrote: Paul Windisch wrote: If I had access to a dyno I would do it that way, but I don't.

That is very slick. Unfortunately, I don't have one of those either! :D

Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:04 pm

I have to agree with the 009 junkers, always keep the stock dizzy.
I have a 205T great distributor for single carbs. I also have the aka Glenn 010 and 019.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:07 pm

Paul Windisch wrote: That is very slick. Unfortunately, I don't have one of those either! :D
In case you didn't know.... I specialize in rebuilding the older cast iron models.

If you are running a stock carb, you are better off with the additional advance the "correct" vacuum/mechanical can give you.

If you're running a performance engine, you are probably better off with a mechanical advance and the OO9 is not one i'd recommend.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:27 pm

Glenn wrote: Paul Windisch wrote: That is very slick. Unfortunately, I don't have one of those either! :D
In case you didn't know.... I specialize in rebuilding the older cast iron models.

If you are running a stock carb, you are better off with the additional advance the "correct" vacuum/mechanical can give you.

Quote: If you're running a performance engine, you are probably better off with a mechanical advance and the OO9 is not one i'd recommend.

I'm just happy being rid of the dreaded 009. Not just for the sake of being rid of it, but all of the grief it has caused me. I would be perfectly happy leaving the 205 ZB in it, even if I can never use the vacuum advance portion of it. It already runs so much better that words can't even describe my glee! I will do much cautious testing with the vacuum advance before I make a final decision. I had a vacuum guage on the Webers already and I think it will work well, but only driving it with my ears on will tell all. Luckily, the vacuum signal is just slightly weaker than stock, so if anything it will not advance quite as much, keeping me on the safer side of detonation.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:55 pm

M.S.D. maybe?

Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:10 pm

Madtat wrote: M.S.D. maybe?
For a stock application?

Nothing like putting a $600 ignition on a $400 engine.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:18 pm

your right didnt re-read.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:24 pm

wouldnt a MSD 6a or 6al work

Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:30 pm

[quote="Paul Windisch"]OK, let me start with the obvious. 009s SUCK! A whole crate full of them wouldn't even make a good boat anchor because s**t floats. I have a 1984 Mexican Beetle. It has a 1914 MOFOCO engine with 042 heads, Weber IDF 40s, Monza exhaust, and up until yesterday, a 009 distributor.

doesnt sound like a stock 400$ motor, maybe it will work

Thu Oct 22, 2009 1:31 pm

Glenn wrote: Madtat wrote: M.S.D. maybe?
For a stock application?

Nothing like putting a $600 ignition on a $400 engine.

hummmmmm i have been thinking about an MSD for my motor.

Thu Oct 22, 2009 6:50 pm

[quote="Madtat"] Paul Windisch wrote: OK, let me start with the obvious. 009s SUCK! A whole crate full of them wouldn't even make a good boat anchor because s**t floats. I have a 1984 Mexican Beetle. It has a 1914 MOFOCO engine with 042 heads, Weber IDF 40s, Monza exhaust, and up until yesterday, a 009 distributor.

doesnt sound like a stock 400$ motor, maybe it will work

Thanks Madtat. I got confused, I couldn't remember ever saying it was stock! Other than the distributor I just put back in.

Fri Oct 23, 2009 1:38 am

I put a Mallory Hyfire on my stock-ish engine which is pretty much like the MSD systems.

Plenty of threads in the performance section about the pros and and cons of CDI. My reasoning, I had it and had nothing better to do with it. Am I glad I did, yes. Honestly though, the benefits of it you will see on a stock engine are not great enough to justify the cost.