TheSamba.com :: View topic - Starts, dies... (x6) Then, starts, and runs well.

Tue Oct 27, 2009 3:42 pm

Here's a new one for me.

My '68 (stock 1500 SP, vacuum advance distributor, and H30/31PICT) will fire right up, and then die about a second later. It'll do this five or six times, then run well. It idles fine, has good power, etc.

It's got new plugs wires, cap, rotor, points, condesnsor, etc, and it's in time. It's getting 27 miles per gallon, and runs great, once it starts. It behaves like this regardless of it's temperature.

Any obvious culprits here? I disconnected the choke entirely, and it's still doing the same thing... I did notice #4 plug was very sooty when I changed out the plugs today. But I'm guessing that's not related.

Edit: Found some burnt points (growing a nipple!). Replaced, checked with Dwell-Meter, and it's certainly starting better... But still dies a few times before running well.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. The car sat for over a year until I aquired it (about a month ago), so I'm thinking a carb-rebuild would be prudent.

Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:09 pm

Fitz of Rage wrote: Any obvious culprits here? I disconnected the choke entirely, and it's still doing the same thing... I did notice #4 plug was very sooty when I changed out the plugs today. But I'm guessing that's not related.
The obvious culprit is the choke. I'd guess it wasn't working or wasn't adjusted correctly before you disconnected it, and so nothing changed. First try a proper adjustment. If the choke doesn't move the choke plate after warming up you need a new choke element. The reason it dies 6 times is the engine is still cold. After all those starts it warms up just enough to keep it running.
http://www.vw-resource.com/choke2.html
http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VWC-113-129-191-G
The plug points to an over-rich condition. Did the other plugs have the same problem?

Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:14 pm

That was my initial thought too, but it does this even after it's warmed up, though to a lesser extent.

As far as the plugs were concerned, more or less. Mostly less, and when I adjusted the valves the day I got it home, both of the #4 valves were really tight.

Oh, I did spin the choke all the way open before screwing the (cover? Plate) back down. However, I think you're on to something...

Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:01 am

The choke needs to be adjusted so that it is just barely fully closed when cold. Please describe how you are starting the car.

Wed Oct 28, 2009 2:55 pm

DrDarby wrote: The choke needs to be adjusted so that it is just barely fully closed when cold. Please describe how you are starting the car.

Will do. I'm simply turning the key, and giving it a few pumps.

And I very much appreciate the help. This is my first electric-choked VW ever, or more to the point, my first electric-choked car or truck, for that matter!

Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:38 pm

The right way to start the car when cold is to press the gas pedal fully to the floor and release it, ONCE. This gives a shot of fuel from the accelerator pump, and also sets the choke plate closed via the step cam on the left side of the carb. Then turn the key but don't pump the gas.

If it runs poorly even after warming up you'll want to do a complete tuneup.
- depending on their condition, replace the spark plugs, plug wires, distributor cap, rotor, points, condenser, and paper air filter (or clean the oil bath if equipped)
- adjust valves
- set point gap
- set timing
- clean and adjust carb
http://www.vw-resource.com/tune-up.html
http://www.vw-resource.com/carb_41.html

Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:48 pm

It runs extremely well once it's warm--new ignition from the coil on, dewll set, timed, etc.

I think the choke was simply screwed up. With the choke completely disconnected, it's firing up after a try or two, and after a minute or two of idling, it's running great.

Need to fix the electric choke, or install a manual.

Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:10 pm

Fitz of Rage wrote: That was my initial thought too, but it does this even after it's warmed up, though to a lesser extent.
Fitz of Rage wrote: It runs extremely well once it's warm
Ok, you confused me there. If all's well after warming up it's likely the choke.

Thu Oct 29, 2009 5:42 pm

Sorry--once it starts, it's the best running VW I've ever owned. Even when warm, if you shut it off to run into the quikie-store or something, it still runs a second, then dies, before firing back up when you get back in it, though it'll do it maybe two or three times, versus the six or so when it's stone cold.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:30 pm

After endless dicking about (which is cool, I enjoy that sort of thing!) I realized my choke was simply malfunctioning. After a quick adjustment, I'm firing her right up...

I felt a bit goofy about this, until I realized it's my first electrically-choked vehicle ever. And yes, I'm a Luddite. :D

Thanks for steering me in the right direction though. Between you cats and the search function, I suddenly realized my "disconnected choke" (ala Muir) was at the heart of my troubles.

Seriously, it's as stock as they come, and needs to be left that way. It's not the bastard bugs of my youth...

I'm going to go chill out now: listen to the Dead, some reggae, and old country, and watch surf videos, and consider my own humility. So often, the answer is staring is in the face! :D

Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:10 pm

Good deal, glad you got her fixed!

Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:07 am

Fitz of Rage wrote: After endless dicking about (which is cool, I enjoy that sort of thing!) I realized my choke was simply malfunctioning. After a quick adjustment, I'm firing her right up...

I felt a bit goofy about this, until I realized it's my first electrically-choked vehicle ever. And yes, I'm a Luddite. :D
Every thread that resolves a problem is good.
This one will help someone else who's new to Bugs. :)