TheSamba.com :: View topic - Car with Adjustable beam and shocks too stiff

Tue Oct 27, 2009 5:33 pm

I know topics like this have been discussed but in my '70 vert I have an adjustable BJ beam with welded in adjusters. I have the adjusters set so the car is just about the highest it will go which is still pretty low. The problem is the car has no suspension at all and you feel just about every bump especially in the front. If you push down on it with all your weight in the fron it won't even move down. So today I go to remove the Empi lowered shocks like pictured below and now the car has some up/down movement and bounce to it which feels like an improvement. The shocks were not bottoming out and they have plenty of travel. Do you know what could be causing this problem? I read about pre-loading the torsion springs but not sure if that will make a difference or if I just need softer shocks. Thanks for help.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:16 pm

Your description implies the adjusters were welded in so the front sits much lower than stock.

Are you running stock ball joints or the aftermarket ones that have more travel?
Stock ball joints have a limited amount of travel and at stock height you may not ever hit the limit, but with adjusters you are starting off with the ball joints already angled as if they were compressed. The total amount of remaining travel in the front suspension is much less. After you set the front down on the wheels, you may already be near binding for your ball joints.

Tue Nov 03, 2009 12:57 am

unless your running a beam and drop spindles you should be running stock shocks... not lowered ones. when yu put these lowered shocks on it takes away all your play. it locks it in place. try some stock shocks kyb gr2s are decent quality and not to expensive.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 4:46 am

boomsVW wrote: unless your running a beam and drop spindles you should be running stock shocks... not lowered ones. when yu put these lowered shocks on it takes away all your play. it locks it in place. try some stock shocks kyb gr2s are decent quality and not to expensive.

If you are running ONLY dropped spindles you should run stock height shock since the DS keep the shock mounts pretty much in their stock locations.

But an adjustable beam changes the height of the front by rotating the torsion bars in the tubes. This changes the relationship between the top and bottom shock mount points. If you lower the front the mounts are closer together necessitating a shorter shock.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:00 am

Ashman the balljoints are stock. I have another car with the same set up (adjusters, lowered shocks & stock ball joints) and I have no issues. I wonder if the beam needs more grease? thanks

Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:22 am

Any chance you can post some pics of how "low" your car sits?

Also, if you can get behind the wheels and take of pic of the ball joints (top/bottom) while the car is on the ground to show how much (angle) the ball joins are rotated?

There was a recent post were the OP had installed their beam with some pre-load (torsion springs working against each other). His beam moved up and down, but stayed at what ever height he moved it to w/o dropping back down.

You mention that your beam is set for max lift, but this is still low... lower than stock height? Have you tried...
Taking a pic of your wheels as they are now. How high into the fenders do they go?
Then, jack up the front. Loosen the adjusters and see how high the wheels will go into the fenders until the rest against the headlight buckets or fender (lowered as much as possible). Take a pic of this from the side as a reference.

Compare the pics.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:16 pm

No pics right now, but as of now I have the bottom adjuster adjusted all the way up (as if to raise the car) and the top one adjusted down (as if to lower the car). It sits maybe 1.5 inches lower than stock. You can push down on the car when it sits so this tells me the BJs still have travel right? after you push down on it, it will spring back up to the height it is. I have 195/60/15 tires and they don't tuck up under the fenders. The edges of the tires would actually hit the fender edges first before the tires would tuck up underneath. How much more travel does a lowered BJ allow versus a non-lowered one? thanks.

Edit: This is pretty much how the car sits but maybe an inch higher now.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:10 pm

No pics right now, but as of now I have the bottom adjuster adjusted all the way up (as if to raise the car) and the top one adjusted down (as if to lower the car).

Well, there's your problem. The adjusters work best when they are in the same positions, otherwise they will work against each other causing all kinds of suspension problems IE: stiff ride, bouncy, limited travel and general ride quality ugliness.

try to get your adjusters in the same position and things should soften up.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:14 pm

Derek Cobb wrote: No pics right now, but as of now I have the bottom adjuster adjusted all the way up (as if to raise the car) and the top one adjusted down (as if to lower the car).

try to get your adjusters in the same position and things should soften up. I had them in very close to the same position when the car was lower and it was the same shit...stiff as hell. Why is the car ride smooth without the shocks but then the minute I put them on, the car is stiff as anything?

Wed Nov 04, 2009 5:20 pm

Odd problem. :?

I think you'd still be better off matching the adjusters at the raised height. Maybe the spring rate is very high with the mismatch of the adjusters and the additional drag of the shock is enough to start things binding up.

I'm really just guessing now.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 6:48 pm

you are going to have to preload you suspension like ashman mentioned. my adjusters are not even with eachother. if you have them set the same you have no preload. what kind of adjusters do you have?

Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:52 pm

nodak_85 wrote: what kind of adjusters do you have? I have ones like these below: What exactly do you mean by preloading the suspension? thanks

Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:13 am

nodak_85 wrote: you are going to have to preload you suspension like ashman mentioned. my adjusters are not even with eachother. if you have them set the same you have no preload. what kind of adjusters do you have?

Actually, I was saying that another person HAD a problem when he pre-loaded his front suspension so you should try it without a preload.

Pre-loading is when you set your springs up to work as if there is a load on them even when there isn't. This tends to make the suspension stiff. The way you decribed your settings, your springs are working against each other. This will limit the range of motion = stiff.

Can I recommend that you try this...
- disconnect/remove your shocks (just for the adjustment)
- jack up the front and loosen both adjusters until the wheels drop to their lowest point
- lower the jack (or jack up the tires) until you reach the height you want (the suspension will compress some once you put the wheels on the ground so you will need to experiment here)
- tighten the adjusters until they just touch the rotating blocks to keep the wheels at this height
- re-install the shocks
- lower the car to the ground

See how that works. If necessary, you can remove the shocks, but only for testing. Some will tell you to leave the shocks off, but IMHO they are a safety item and should be installed.

Good luck!

P.S. - The beetle front end is VERY light relative to most cars. Most shocks are too stiff for a pleasant ride. I run GR-2s and feel they are too stiff for a comfortable ride. I'm not sure if your Empi shocks are gas or oil. Gas would be stiffer.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 7:12 am

Thanks ashman I'll give it a shot this weekend.