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Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:02 pm

Maybe, but a little extra effort seems worth it. Does a carb bus have a thread-on steel collar at the bottom of the tank (fuel outlet)? That might factor in, since FI busses have two rubber splices right at the bottom of the tank, might defeat the purpose, since if those melt, your fancy high-up pump wouldn't matter anyway - only would work if it was 100% steel from the bottom up to a higher place.

Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:06 pm

VDubTech wrote: I have to disagree with your above statement about not being able to stop the fire.

Did you see the pics? Looks to me like he couldn't stop it.... :?

Wed Oct 28, 2009 5:12 pm

atmellovw wrote: VDubTech wrote: I have to disagree with your above statement about not being able to stop the fire.

Did you see the pics? Looks to me like he couldn't stop it.... :?

Yes I saw the pics, how could I not? I was relaying my experience with a Bus fire. The after pics don't mean anything, what matters is what happened when the Bus caught fire and in the 10 minutes following it. Just seeing a fire and sitting there and watching it burn doesn't accomplish a thing. I saw a fire and ran for an extinguisher and I was able to drive my Bus that very same day. I was just saying that a blanket "you can't put a Bus fire out once it starts" statement isn't true. Each and every situation is different, maybe different action by the OP would have saved his Bus, maybe not.....but you gotta make the effort to put it out or all of these stories will end with pics just like these...heartbreaking.

Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:09 pm

sorry about the loss

what is the proper way to put out a bus fire?

I want to ensure the safety of my passengers and deprive the fire of fuel, oxygen and an ignition source.

It would be nice to have mechanical linkage to a shutoff valve at the tank outlet.

I would take the extinguisher from beside my seat, close the window, look for fire, step outside and close the door. If I had passengers I would tell them to close the window, look for fire, and evacuate using the front passenger door, close the door and to stand upwind I would then look for the origin or lowest point of the fire. If there were flames on the ground, use the dry chem on the ground and then in the air scoops If there were no flames on the ground, check the engine lid for flames, smoke or heat and shoot the dry chem extinguisher into the air scoops. continue shooting into the air scoops until the flames were out. If there is fuel leaking, find the leak and plug it with a pencil. If there is fuel on the ground roll the bus away from the pool. When there is no more smoke or fire cautiously open the engine lid . Vapors could ignite when the open lid supplies fresh air or from an electrical spark After the compartment is free of fuel and vapors disconnect the battery.

I want all doors and windows closed and the engine lid closed until the fire is out. I want the dry chem to cutoff oxygen to the fire. I want the fuel leak stopped. And when the air is clean I'll remove an ignition source.

prevention is the best cure
there should be a shutoff valve at the tank outlet, but if there was a bit of water in the fuel would it freeze inside the valve? And it might have to be a metric pipe thread. So the next best would be metal line that loops above the top of the tank with a shutoff valve, and a filter before the stuff in the tank gets to the fuel pump. I want clear plastic or glass so I can see if I got a mixture of gas and diesel or there is water or junk in the fuel. I'll put this off in a corner so it's away from heat and ignition. I also want a filter between the fuel pump and carburetor.

well to do all this I need to use hose and clamps so where do I start using hose and switch to metal lines. carb to pump, hose, pump to plastic filter hose, plastic filter to fire wall, hose, firewall to tank, metal lines. But what if i used a double barb fitting through the firewall and all hose and clamps to the tank. Or what if I mounted a shutoff valve with barb fittings on the firewall? Shutoff handle inside or outside the engine compartment? Would it stay warm or would it be a cold sink and freeze moisture in the fuel and cause a mysterious lack of power?

I carry two extinguishers. one beside each front seat, they are rechargeable and not the single time useless model. I check my hose and clamp fuel lines and replace as needed.

Hope we will all be safe in the future.
Aloha
tp

Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:36 pm

Daverham wrote: Maybe, but a little extra effort seems worth it. Does a carb bus have a thread-on steel collar at the bottom of the tank (fuel outlet)? That might factor in, since FI busses have two rubber splices right at the bottom of the tank, might defeat the purpose, since if those melt, your fancy high-up pump wouldn't matter anyway - only would work if it was 100% steel from the bottom up to a higher place.

On my '74 I have the steel tubing hooked to a compression style needle valve which is screwed into the bottom of the tank. It's been that way for two decades now, so I don't remember exactly what I did to make it work.

If you have a carb conversion on a later bus you will end up with a short piece of hose at the bottom of the tank. The use of AN hose would be preferable here, but even if just regular hose was use, the steel tubing extending into the engine compartment should keep the flames from reaching the underside of the tank for several additional minutes.

On a FI'ed bus, do what you can do. Use steel tubing where it can be used and AN hose where appropriate. Some AN hose is rated to handle pretty high pressures, but I really don't know if any is appropriate for use with a VW FI system. You could certainly use AN hose between the tank and the pump and for the return.

Wed Oct 28, 2009 9:00 pm

i still dont see why he couldnt get into the engine compartment, isnt it a good habit to check the engine every morning before you run it? just a quick head pop in there could have seen a problem and prevented the fire before it started.

Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:36 pm

Things happen. Such as the brass nipple pulling out of the carburator. But those should be safety wired ahead of time.

Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:37 pm

Quote: I pulled out the drive way, got about a hundred yards down the street and all I hear is a click and everythings off. Had enough momentum to pull over on the side of the road. Tried to start it again but it wouldn't turn over. Got out to go check to see what was up and all I see is thick black smoke pooring out of the vents and rear end.

While I have voiced my sorrow at his loss, he really needs to finish this thread by going into some more detail what the cause was and how the burn pattern ended up like it is.

He states he saw "smoke" (not flames) after the engine died and he pulled over. The black smoke implies gasoline or oil as the fuel.

Looking at the burn marks, it seems like the rear fire was confined to the engine comparment then it vented out the vents and blew out the windows and spread forward, then consumed the front seat? If you look you'll see that the tires are not burned at all in the photos so it doesn't look at all like it had flames under it. What is strange to me is that the front is burned just as bad as the back and down low too. I've seen burned buses and normally there isn't that much fire forward unless fuel runs under the bus in which case the tires go.

Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:30 am

That's a good point SG.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:14 am

Traveling Writer wrote: Dude, so sorry about your loss! Everyone's nightmare for sure.

Please, please, do us all a huge favor (and yourself for later), and go over everything in the engine and try to find out what caused this fire. If you can't do anything else and don't have a lot of time (you said you have to get it out of there soon) then get your camera and photograph the engine from a few angles and whatever else you can document, and post them here. Maybe someone will be able to spot something too...

Man, that SUCKS.

I agree. That really sucks. My 72 caught fire when the engine blew. I put it out with my diet pepsi(2-liter). I hope you take pics of the engine compartment too. I would like to hear what all the pros here deduce from the after the fire pics. I agree also that you had a real nice interior and you had done some good work on it. Such a shame. Maybe we can all learn from the pics. Good luck on your next ride.

L8tr, TH

Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:37 pm

The first clue on this is the statement about hearing a click and everything going off. That suggests an electrical problem to me. I once foolishly put oil in mine and laid the aftermarket oil cap up on the generator and forgot about it. The damn thing was arcing through the nice open hole in the top of the genny. The lights dimmed once and I quickly shut it off, stopped and went around to look and then gave myself a good cursing. :oops:

Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:02 pm

Glad you got out OK.. I've heard of the fan over the engine falling and causing a fire. Fell onto the motor, something shorted and then flames started. They put it out quick so there was a little burnt paint in the engine hatch, no major damage.. Hope you share if you discover the cause. Might be too far gone to tell.. My condolences..

Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:36 pm

I think Aeromech is on to the problem. Everyone just glazed over it.

I have had 3 bugs catch on fire because of the carb stub working it's way out going down the road. It sprays fuel all over the motor and when the float runs out of fuel and it backfires, there's your instant fire with plenty of fuel.

In all cases I was able to open the deck lid and put the fire out with minor damage.

After I wised up I started pulling the stud out and coating it with JB Weld. Never had any more problems.

Randy had a nice picture one time with a wire connection to hold it in place.

If you were new to buses there is no way for you to know this. Changing the fuel lines is very important but securing the fuel intake line on older buses and bugs with the 1600 motors is just important.

Sorry for your loss

Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:32 am

I would be very interested in salvaging parts off that puppy. I just got back from driving a 79 westy here from PA and never checked the fuel lines. I meant to but it's just so confusing in there w/ all that f/i stuff. PO did have receipts stating they'd been done a couple thousand miles ago but I knew that they were 9 years old so it was constantly on my mind. Had that fire extinguisher right next me the whole way! Anyway, if you're still reading this halfmoon bay, and if you haven't ditched it yet, I'm right up the road in Pacifica and would love to give the bumper and wheels a good home on my 72 high top camper.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:52 am

Quote: if you haven't ditched it yet, I'm right up the road in Pacifica

He's not in Half Moon Bay. He moved to Lancaster, CA, and that is where the bus is.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:58 am

Oh well, my condolences to the guy anyway. That's gotta be heartbreaking. Coincidentally, i just drove here from Lancaster, PA.

Wed Feb 10, 2010 5:37 pm

I bought this Bay and I'm in the process of turning it into a baja bus. This is what it looks like today:

The engine is running and all of the major systems work. Here it is in action:

I think it looks like a big happy calico colored Saint Bernard.

Kerniew

Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:54 pm

VDubTech wrote: halfmoon_bay wrote: But I gotta tell ya man, when that thing lights it just goes, there's no stoppin it. Especially considering the 10 seconds or so I took once it turned off till I got out and noticed it on fire.

First off, sorry to hear about your Bus, that totally sucks. Second, I have to disagree with your above statement about not being able to stop the fire. I had a fire start in the engine compartment of my '74 and once I saw it I had to run to a nearby store, get a fire extinguisher and douse the flames with it. The fire was out, I had the Bus towed home, replaced the burnt wires, the melted fan screen and oil filler, and then I drove it 2.5 hours the same day to a Dead show in Albany. You can definitely put a fire out once it starts, you just have to keep a level head and do what it takes to get that thing out before it consumes your Bus. I actually had a fire extinguisher in the Bus that I totally forgot about in the heat of the moment, but the one I grabbed from a nearby store was much larger and probably helped save my Bus.
Apparently, the key to extinguishing a bus fire is to make sure it happens near a store with a fire extinguisher. :roll:

Good work on the rejuvenation, kerniew