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Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:11 pm

So I've followed Muir up to the part where he tells you to remove the torque converter bolts...problem is, I can't get a full rotation out of the crank pulley as described here. Is this a PITA, minor hurdle or non-issue?

Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:24 am

Why can't you get a full rotation out of it? Is the engine broken internally? I would try rotating it in the other direction to see if you can get where you need to be.

Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:21 pm

turning it with a wrench, the pulley stops in either direction after about 2/3 of a turn and then the bolt will loosen or tighten.

when turning the crank pulley, the 3 forward rocker arms on the right side move, but the rearmost does not. on the left, the only one that moves is the rearmost. so, yes, something's broken internally, i just don't know what. :?

is there an alternate method of getting to the torque converter bolts to remove them? i don't know much about engines and am learning from Muir, Bentley and Haynes as i go.

Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:38 pm

For the heck of it, you might try taking the rocker shafts off of both sides and removing all the push rods. Then take out all four spark plugs and see if it will turn. Otherwise, you may need to take as much of the engine apart as you can in the car. Although a PITA, I think you can get all the engine tin and shroud off, then try to loosen up the heads as much as possible and move them as far as they'll go. It sounds like you have a broken rod. Also try removing the oil screen, look inside with a flashlight and try to fish the broken culprit out or at least move what is broken until you can turn the crank.

EDIT: I work at a Caddy dealer, and unfortunately when we have a rod go, many times we have to break apart the oil pan and lower block to free it up so we can get all the converter bolts. Hopefully with the screen opening you will be able to free up whatever is hanging you without breaking anything.

Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:49 pm

I've pulled those motors that are locked with the torque convertor attached, it's a bear for one man with two floor jacks but it can be done. I would get some help from a friend or two. When you pull the motor out from the trans I have been able to reach that last bolt.One other thing transmission fluid will go everywhere. Good luck Mike

Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:48 pm

Removed the push rods, rocker arms and spark plugs. Still not getting a full turn on the pulley. The spark plug in cylinder 3 was WAY over torqued, but otherwise intact. This is the plug from cylinder 2
:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Some metal filings in the oil when the oil cover plate came off...let what was left to drip out and got distracted with other things. I'll check the scavenger/screen tomorrow.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:44 am

Hiya Munk,

Speaking as an AutoStick owner who has done a few engine drops I'd strongly suggest that you follow Paul's advice. If that doesn't work out for you, you can go to 10's suggestion concerning dropping the tranny and engine as a unit. But do be aware when 10 says it's a "bear" he's understating the case. I'd only go that route as a last resort.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:49 am

Kind of looks like it dropped a valve, that's why the spark plug is all beat up. There is probably a big chunk of it laying in the bore so when the piston is coming up it's getting jammed against the cyl head. Be prepared to unbolt the head so it will slide out some. Bottom cyl head nuts are easy, top one's are going to require a little more effort since they are under the top cooling tin.

Tue Nov 03, 2009 1:46 pm

This is where I am w/the engine disassembly so far

How much can I take apart? This is the list I made based in the Muir engine diagram. Any additions to the list?
oil cooler
fuel pump
distributor
alt stand/oil filler
manifolds
crank pulley (assuming I can't get a full rotation after clearing the oil scaveger)
oil pump
crankshaft gland nut

Tue Nov 03, 2009 2:01 pm

The rest of the cooling tin. Also, once you get the manifolds off, if you have a broken intake valve, you may be able to get in the port with a flexible magnet and remove broken parts, or move them enogh to rotate the crank. Let us know what's up after you remove the screen.

EDIT: once you get the rest of the cooling tin off, you will be able to see the rest of the head stud nuts. You may have to ruin the engine tin-to-body seal to get at 'em, but that seal is cheap.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 10:51 pm

DaMunk wrote: oil coolerX
fuel pump X
distributor X
alt stand/oil filler
manifolds
crank pulley (assuming I can't get a full rotation after clearing the oil scaveger)
oil pump
crankshaft gland nut
rest of the cooling tin

the oil scavenger/screen is removable isn't it? didn't take a pic, but the piece behind the 6 bolts in the oil drain was immovable (it's tricky to gauge how much force is enough when you don't really know what you're doing) . didn't see or feel any debris in there.

but got to the fuel pump and distributor off. slow going - my hands are small enough, but my tools are just too big 8)
issues:
*the two rear manifold bolts are impossible to get to AND get leverage
*how do i disconnect the oil filler from the alt stand? there's not enough straight length to get the alt stand off the bolts before the oil filler bends

*i'm batting less than .500 in loosening the tin screws vs stripping the screws even after the penetrating oil

nothing like bending rusty sheet metal to relive stress

there's something missing here besides the sheet metal between the block and heat exchanger, no?

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:01 am

DaMunk,
Sled tin and thermostat + bracket and I can't see the rod either. Looks like the bracket mount stud has sheared off. Try and find one of Glenn's piccies of the setup.

To get that gen stand off, take off the inlet manifold. That'll allow easier access to those PITA rear nuts. If you want to take the oil filler off before hand, get a 1" internal pipe wrench socket. EMPI (from a VW Flaps) make a decent one. I wouldn't bother with the standard tool, go directly to the HD unit (the 1" internal pipe wrench). Make sure the moving section of the tool actually contacts the steel gland nut otherwise you'll tear up the alloy.

That ATF hose has to come off before you can pull the rear tin. Undo the hose and either lift it up high and hang it there or plug it.

Be careful of the steel ATF pipes. The nut holding the ATF fitting sandwiches the tin between the lower fitting and that nut. Lots of penetrant
on that nut. Don't rip in to it without checking how the pipe is doing underneath.

Take the rear tin off now.

Next up is freeing the ATF pump steel line from ATF tank to the pump. You either undo it with two spanners at the oil pump union (ATF is going to go everywhere) or whip a socket onto the ATF tank/hose fitting and with some judicious sharp blows undo that one (with ATF leaking everywhere :roll: ).

I see you've also got the stove pipe. That is fixed by an exhaust stud nut and a screw into the rear tinware joins.

Lastly, once ALL the tinware is off and you have a nicely bent up spanner you can take the oil cooler and adapter off if you so desire.

Kroil/PB etc is your friend here.

Enjoy
Volkenstein

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:03 pm

This is where I am now. A PITA right before dinner is a welcome challenge the following day. :D

I've hit the rest of the tin screws with Liquid Wrench and I'm hoping they'll release, but they're pretty rusty. I'm anticipating I'll need to use a reverse thread tool.

The oil screen is out and there's not anything obviously out of place, though the magnet I have is just a bit too big to get in there and go fishing so I'm not positive.

I drained the ATF from the hose connected to the tank then removed the tank itself. Should I still anticipate more fluid? I've already probably spilled as much as I collected.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:20 pm

I am basically at the same spot with mine. I have been soaking the tin screws in PB Blaster every night and morning for the last 3 days and nothing, so I am thinking I might have to get medieval. Let us know how it goes!

I am also hung up on the nuts on the heater boxes...one off, 3 stuck.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:44 pm

DaMunk,
Not much more ATF. It will leak everywhere out of the torque converter once the engine is out.

Speaking of that, exhaust is the last thing (besides the stove pipe) to come off and you should be ready to drop it. Stuff some rags in all those open holes or get a shop vac. Unlike a manual, the A-S engine uses 4 bolts. Manuals have two nuts on the lower two (to match the studs).

Try and save the rear tin piece you've taken off or go hunting for a 71-72 manual replacement and drill a hole for the ATF connection. Pity about your cylinder tins...have you got the two "eyebrow" pieces? Again, one of Glenn's piccies should come to the rescue.

Take off the oil pressure sender too before you go muh further. It's in a really fragile place (case wise).

Enjoy
Volkenstein

Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:31 pm

Hiya Munk,

Just a note on those stubborn tin screws................

Soaking them with PBBlaster is a great idea, but be patient and consistent. Spray those suckers a few times a day for a few days. Don't be afraid to tap them with a ballpeen hammer but don't go mashing them because they are a lot harder than the aluminum/magnesium case they sit in. And speaking of that a little judicious use of heat around the tin screw can help to loosen the screw up a bit.

But my best piece of advice is to get the biggest possible screwdriver that will fit the slot. I have a huge Craftsman screwdriver that almost all screws surrender to.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:24 pm

volkenstein wrote: DaMunk,
Not much more ATF. It will leak everywhere out of the torque converter once the engine is out.

Speaking of that, exhaust is the last thing (besides the stove pipe) to come off and you should be ready to drop it. Stuff some rags in all those open holes or get a shop vac. Unlike a manual, the A-S engine uses 4 bolts. Manuals have two nuts on the lower two (to match the studs).

Try and save the rear tin piece you've taken off or go hunting for a 71-72 manual replacement and drill a hole for the ATF connection. Pity about your cylinder tins...have you got the two "eyebrow" pieces? Again, one of Glenn's piccies should come to the rescue.

Take off the oil pressure sender too before you go muh further. It's in a really fragile place (case wise).

Enjoy
Volkenstein

I'll be sure to prepare for more ATF from the transmission...I'd like to do my best to avoid the mess I made when I kicked over a liter or so when initially drained the system.

Volkstein,
Exhaust is off. What's this stove pipe you refer to? I should fill the holes for the oil cooler, distro and oil filler?

What's the best tool to remove the oil pressure sender? Deep socket or will a crescent wrench do the trick?

Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:50 pm

Hiya Munk,

Inasmuch as Sean is on the other side of the world (probably asleep) I'll take a shot at those questions............

You can remove the oil pressure sender with just about anything. Best? For sure a deep drive socket which applies torque to all surfaces. But a good old Crescent wrench will do the job.

Please do cover all the exposed holes in the case. From your pictures it looks as if you have your share of crud floating around from disassembly. You don't want that in the internals, especially if you are not planning any lower end work.

The "stovepipe" (found under cylinder number 2) helps route heated air under the right hand cyclinder bank up to the air cleaner/filter. It's a sheet metal elbow held in place via the rear exhaust and tin.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 4:51 pm

Gotcha. Broke out the shop vac after the pics, but I suppose covering the holes while waiting on the penetrating oil isn't a bad idea. Thanks Mike.

Joel

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:01 pm

Vice grips did the job just fine for me in removing the little bolts that hold on the tin, and it didn't harm them any either..give that a try in the PB blaster isn't really doing anything...and Aero Kroil works really nicely too.