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Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:05 pm

Hi guys I will be pulling my engine to install my camper special engine.

I have done this a few times with my old busses, but they had standard transmissions. My current bus has an automatic.

Do I ensure the trans is in neutral or park prior to taking them apart or does it matter?

Also are there any other little things to watch out for?

Thanks

Shawn

Fri Oct 30, 2009 9:01 pm

It doesn't matter if it is in neutral or park for removal. You should remove both engine and 003 automatic together, it is easier to align them back together outside the bus. You will need to adjust you selector lever cable after everything is back in per the Bentley section 13.2. With the selector in Park ensure that you hold the cable lever fully to the rear (back of the bus) while tightening the cable clamp nut. If you push the lever back by hand it appears to be fully back but you need to lever it with a screwdriver per the Bentley to get that last 1/8 inch. Of course I learned this the hard way. Without the lever fully back the transmission reverse band is partially engaged while you think you are in Park. Transmission makes lots of stink and smoke that way :roll:

Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:17 am

Gear selection does not matter. Engine can easily be changed leaving trans installed.
On the drivers side of the engine case near the top engine mounting bolt there is a rubber plug {between the bolt and the case center}. remove this plug and turn the crank until you see a bolt head in the hole the plug covered. Spray a shot of light colored paint into the hole for the first bolt only. This will mark the location of the torque convertor in relation to the flex plate. Remove this bolt, repeat 2 more times. When all of these bolts are removed the torque convertor can be spun by hand from unerneath.

Once the torque is free to spin the engine removal is the same as a manual trans.

You will have to transfer the flex plate {automatic version of the flywheel} to the new engine. YOU WILL NEED THE PROPER TRIPPLE SQUARE SOCKET to remove and install the flex plate.

Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:23 am

[quote="dan macmillan]...
YOU WILL NEED THE PROPER TRIPPLE SQUARE SOCKET to remove and install the flex plate.[/quote]

DEFINITELY! I screwed up two of mine using a Torx bit. And those bolts are VERY hard to find. O'Reilly auto parts ordered the correct bit for me and it arrived next day. Peace!

Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:50 am

Assuming you are not going to be pulling the transmission to reseal it, once you remove the bolts that hold the torque converter to the flex plate, you want to wire the torque converter to the transmission so it can slide off the shaft.

A better idea would be to pull the transmission and replace all the seals in it if this hasn't been done in that last 50-80K miles. There is a system of seals that separate the ATF from the gear oil and when they fail and the oils mixes, repairs can be costly.

Sat Oct 31, 2009 7:41 am

I've pulled just the engine and both engine and auto trans together. I found it easier to re-install the engine transmission pair.

Sat Oct 31, 2009 4:02 pm

Wildthings wrote: A better idea would be to pull the transmission and replace all the seals in it if this hasn't been done in that last 50-80K miles. There is a system of seals that separate the ATF from the gear oil and when they fail and the oils mixes, repairs can be costly.

Good idea.

I have them apart. Torque convertor is out.

What seals should be replaced? I know there is an input seal or something on the torque convertor. It MUST be leaking because it was dripping out fluid after I took them apart. Is there an easy way to give the trans a complete test now that it is out? I want it 100% when I put it back in! But I don't want to pay for a rebuild if it is not needed

Thanks

Shawn

Sat Oct 31, 2009 5:06 pm

davis911s wrote: Wildthings wrote: A better idea would be to pull the transmission and replace all the seals in it if this hasn't been done in that last 50-80K miles. There is a system of seals that separate the ATF from the gear oil and when they fail and the oils mixes, repairs can be costly.

Good idea.

I have them apart. Torque convertor is out.

What seals should be replaced? I know there is an input seal or something on the torque convertor.

You want to replace all the shaft seals: the TC seal, the three seals on the input/pinion shaft in the final section (two go back to back and are identical), and the governor seal. This requires tearing the final drive down. Not hard to do, but you must mark the big nuts on the carrier bearings so you can get them back exactly as they were.

Quote: It MUST be leaking because it was dripping out fluid after I took them apart. Is there an easy way to give the trans a complete test now that it is out? I want it 100% when I put it back in! But I don't want to pay for a rebuild if it is not needed

I am not much of a transmission man, so I can't speak to the automatic section of these transmissions. For the older 003 boxes you could adjust the bands without too much effort. The 003's were actually very easy to rebuild, and I have been led to understand that the 010's aren't all that much different, but can't speak from personal experience.

I would also recommend going to the torque converter used on '82 and '83 vanagons. It has a higher stall speed and VW recommended it as a replacement for earlier TC's. It can be identified by the "Z" stamped on one of the three mounting bosses.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:21 pm

dan macmillan wrote: You will have to transfer the flex plate {automatic version of the flywheel} to the new engine. YOU WILL NEED THE PROPER TRIPPLE SQUARE SOCKET to remove and install the flex plate.

Thanks I assume these bolts are re-usable? I priced new ones and they were $18 EACH x5 = $100 :o

Shawn

Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:44 pm

when I removed my engine from a '76 (my tranny supports itself :-) ) I had to locate the correct tool to get the flex plate off. I found it at pepboys it's called three box socket or XZN socket. Hope it helps good luck :-)

Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:52 pm

Thanks

I ordered one from Scott at German Supply.

Shawn

Sun Nov 01, 2009 2:54 pm

davis911s wrote: dan macmillan wrote: You will have to transfer the flex plate {automatic version of the flywheel} to the new engine. YOU WILL NEED THE PROPER TRIPPLE SQUARE SOCKET to remove and install the flex plate.

Thanks I assume these bolts are re-usable? I priced new ones and they were $18 EACH x5 = $100 :o

Shawn

They are reusable. Make sure you don't damage them during removal. I used an impact wrench on a medium setting and a little gentle heat from a propane torch. Not on the bolt itself, around it.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:03 pm

I'm just curious as what you are doing to be able to run your automatic with the Camper Special setup. I asked Raby one time about it with my automatic and he said I woud need to install a tranny cooler or the engine would fry it. I asked the mechanic who re-built my tranny and he said he didn't know of a way to install a cooler so I kind of gave up on getting the engine kit, what has been your solution?

Sun Nov 01, 2009 3:13 pm

kkirwin wrote: I'm just curious as what you are doing to be able to run your automatic with the Camper Special setup. I asked Raby one time about it with my automatic and he said I woud need to install a tranny cooler or the engine would fry it. I asked the mechanic who re-built my tranny and he said he didn't know of a way to install a cooler so I kind of gave up on getting the engine kit, what has been your solution?

Jake never mentioned any issues with the automatic/ camper combo. I don't see how it would fry the transmission, they are very sturdy transmissions, but I will ask Jake about it.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:07 pm

davis911s wrote: kkirwin wrote: I'm just curious as what you are doing to be able to run your automatic with the Camper Special setup. I asked Raby one time about it with my automatic and he said I woud need to install a tranny cooler or the engine would fry it. I asked the mechanic who re-built my tranny and he said he didn't know of a way to install a cooler so I kind of gave up on getting the engine kit, what has been your solution?

Jake never mentioned any issues with the automatic/ camper combo. I don't see how it would fry the transmission, they are very sturdy transmissions, but I will ask Jake about it.

The tranny is pretty much designed to function without an external cooler. The torque converter is equipped with vanes to move cooling air over it. 411/412 used to burn up 003 trannies in a heart beat, but they used a torque converter with a very low stall speed (1700? rpms) and very high gearing (3.7-3.9?), not a good match.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:25 pm

When I talked to Jake about auto tranny issues with the CS, he mentioned higher oil temps as a possible consequence but not issues with the tranny itself. Granted mine is a later 010 tranny which is considered a bit more robust.

Perhaps if we mention "Jake Raby" on this thread he'll get a google alert and chime in himself so as to clear up the hearsay.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:33 pm

Reply from Jake

Quote: That must have been a while ago.. I have at least a dozen kits on the road in Autos that have been sold in the last 2-3 years. The engine oil temps do run hotter, but not by much and thats something that you should not have an issue with in Canada.

Quote: Perhaps if we mention "Jake Raby" on this thread he'll get a google alert and chime in himself so as to clear up the hearsay.

That is the #1 thing I have found about Jake so far. CUSTOMER SERVICE. Every time I have needed a question answered, he is all over it. And I know he is a very busy man.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:47 pm

Clarification : I wasn't inquiring as to the effect the auto trans would have on the engine but the effect the engine would have on the transmission. In this thread on page three below my post he clearly says that the engine is set up to run well with the auto trans but the transmission needs an external cooler or the engine will fry the tranny, please correct me if I interpreted this incorrectly.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2...p;start=40

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:51 pm

WhirledTraveller wrote: Perhaps if we mention "Jake Raby" on this thread he'll get a google alert and chime in himself so as to clear up the hearsay.

Most likely he'll get pissed that Shawn (Davis911s') is asking/posting questions about his "camper special" here @ thesamba, and not asking him directly...

By the way, it's "Heresy", not 'hearsay' to Jake Raby.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:59 pm

73kombi wrote: Most likely he'll get pissed that Shawn (Davis911s') is asking/posting questions about his "camper special" here @ thesamba, and not asking him directly...

By the way, it's "Heresy", not 'hearsay' to Jake Raby.

I doubt it. He usually gets pissed when people ask questions about his engines on other forums that are engine specific about his kits. And I don't blame him! Jake has put lots of effort into making these kits perfect. When we ask simple questions, or post how happy we are with his product or customer service I think he would be pleased. The reason I bought the Camper special is because of reviews I read here on The Samba!!