TheSamba.com :: View topic - Have T1, going back to T4, can I use the same starter?

Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:15 pm

I'm going back from a T1 to a T4. Can I use the same starter, or will I need a different one?

Thanks in advance.

Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:46 pm

you need to ask all these questions in one thread and not jump around, but only after knowing what you have, then ask what you need,

so the reply can only be >> maybe, yes .. no.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:47 am

Based on your profile, is it a '75? I think the bendix in '75 and up starter was longer.

According to CIP1, the starter covers a number of years:

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BOS%2DSR15N

Here is one from Bus Depot for '76 and up:

http://busdepot.com/details.jsp?partnumber=SR87XOR

But if you need to get a new starter, go to Auto Zone. Yea their not Bosch but they are under $40.00 with a lifetime warranty. You cant go wrong!

I just went through this and found that I needed to get a '75 starter for my '73 Bay due to me having an upright. I wonder if you will have the opposite problem and need a starter with a shorter bendix?

Can you see the part # on your starter?

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:25 am

Magnus, thanks a lot for for your help. Ill check that out. The starter is pretty wedged, so not sure if I can see what kind it is, but Ill find out when dropping the motor

Sun Nov 01, 2009 6:52 am

Joe,

If I were you I would see if you could get the starter that was with the engin we're going to install. If you need it you'll have it and can guy it from Bret. If not you can return it to Bret. Also you should get those flapper boxes. Looking at the spares I have they do have some holes in them, and I'm not convinced they will work anyway being the later 76 style.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:27 am

The starter, just like the input shaft, needs to match the bellhousing.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:36 am

pb24ss wrote: Joe,

If I were you I would see if you could get the starter that was with the engin we're going to install. If you need it you'll have it and can guy it from Bret. If not you can return it to Bret. Also you should get those flapper boxes. Looking at the spares I have they do have some holes in them, and I'm not convinced they will work anyway being the later 76 style.

That would be great if I don't have the right one, so I wouldn't have to mess around and we just have everything we need. I'd hate to be mounting and find out we need another starter.

Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:39 am

I know these might not help, but I managed to get under the bus this morning to snap a few photos:

Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:51 am

Quote: If you need to get a new starter, go to Auto Zone. Yea their not Bosch but they are under $40.00 with a lifetime warranty. You cant go wrong!

Yes you can. Read the threads on the Samba. There are people who have gone through 5, 6, 7 cheapo "lifetime warrantied" starters and alternators that kept failing. Finally they gave up, trashed the part, and bought a real one.

This is a case of getting what you pay for. It simply costs more than $40 to buy a core, fully rebuild it, test it, clean and paint it, package it, and ship it to a retailer. And that isn't even allowing for a markup. When a discount auto parts retailer (I am speaking generally here, not disparaging AutoZone) inks a deal with an electrical rebuilder, they have two criteria - fast and cheap. Whoever can supply truckloads upon truckloads of dirt-cheap starters and alternators for every possible vehicle gets the deal. A quality rebuilder won't even try to compete in that arena. Saying the product is built to a price is an understatement. In many cases it is scarcely more than a cleaned and repainted used part.

It is cheaper for a discount retailer to sell a crappy rebuild and tack on a "lifetime warranty" than to rebuild the part well to begin with. Statistically, most people won't use the lifetime warranty, for a multitude of reasons, so the "lifetime warranty" costs the retailer next to nothing. The customer may not be convenient to a location of that chain when the part fails. The vehicle may get towed to a mechanic who puts on their own part. The customer may lose the receipt. He may move. The vehicle may get sold. And so on.

The retailer is playing the odds at your expense. When the part fails, you still have to spend your time/money/hassle removing it, returning it, and reinstalling it (perhaps multiple times). Not to mention the hassle if it happens to fail at night far from home, loss of pay and/or pissed off boss if it happens on your way to work, etc. And of course there's the loss of use of your Bus while you deal with the hassle.

If you like gambling, trust a $40 rebuild. Maybe you'll get the rare one that lasts forever. Maybe you won't. If you're not the gambling type, get a quality rebuild and be done with it. Bosch branded rebuilds are always a safe bet. If you're not buying a Bosch branded rebuild, make sure you know who is doing the work. Most of my U.S. made rebuilts, for example, come from a small VW/Bosch specialist whom I've used for almost 15 years, and who knows them top to bottom. You can also ask around and see if there is a local specialist who can rebuild yours in a quality fashion. Less safe are the discount store brands and the no-name Chinese ("imported") ones often found online. The bottom line is, if it seems to cheap to be good, it probably is.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:59 am

Also keep in mind who is likely to have to push start the bus when it won't start.

It is not likely to be AutoBone.

Also when installing a new starter, at least clean the cables going to and from it. For $25 you can likely replace the battery ground strap, chassis ground strap, and the starter cables. I bought mine at the Bus Depot and they work well even though they are now 5 years old.

All depends on how much you like to push. Personally I don't.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:55 am

Good advice, but clean the rest of the bottom of that tranny and engine of grime! I wouldn't work on that Bus without it being steamcleaned first...

Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:11 am

J Bleyseng wrote: Good advice, but clean the rest of the bottom of that tranny and engine of grime! I wouldn't work on that Bus without it being steamcleaned first...

Ive tried to clean it many times before. Not easy to do by hand. Pressure didn't work either.

Now, back to starters

Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:35 am

we'll get the starter from the donor bus. we'll have it on hand in case we need it.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:44 am

RIOMX wrote: J Bleyseng wrote: Good advice, but clean the rest of the bottom of that tranny and engine of grime! I wouldn't work on that Bus without it being steamcleaned first...

Ive tried to clean it many times before. Not easy to do by hand. Pressure didn't work either.

Now, back to starters

Clean Is Good

Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:03 am

Busdepot wrote: Less safe are the discount store brands and the no-name Chinese ("imported") ones often found online.

Since you are in this thread to sell starters...WTF? Any re-built starter can fail at any time for a number of reasons, as can a new Brazilian one.

Is Autolite a "no-name" brand? Do you hate the Chinese?

And back "on-topic"...The starter you have is the starter you need. It must match the bell housing. There's no reason to even unbolt the bottom bolt for an engine swap. Although yours does look pretty messy, and it has that Ford hot-start relay...it might not be a bad idea to clean it up while you're in there.

The BusDepot guy could have said just that! (but he's here to talk up his product) Pre '76 buses all use the same starter, and the 091 bell housing from 76 on use the other.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:11 am

73kombi wrote: Busdepot wrote: Less safe are the discount store brands and the no-name Chinese ("imported") ones often found online.

Since you are in this thread to sell starters...WTF? Any re-built starter can fail at any time for a number of reasons, as can a new Brazilian one.

Is Autolite a "no-name" brand? Do you hate the Chinese?

I have a friend who once worked for a major west coast electrical rebuilder. At times they would get a large order from some FLAPS chain say NAPA that they didn't have the inventory to fill. They would just steam clean a pile of old cores, paint them and send them out. They would pocket their normal fees for this service and wouldn't get all that many warranty claims as most people don't keep receipts or otherwise can't be bothered to go through a warranty hassle for $40 bucks.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:25 am

I have a cheap Auto Zone alternator. It's failed three times and I've had it replaced under warranty each time. But given what a pain it is to remove and replace, I've sworn the next time it fails I'm replacing it with a good rebuilt Bosch.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:00 am

Amskeptic wrote:
Clean Is Good

Colin, I promise I will scrub as hard as I possibly can (even if my knuckles bleed) to do your engine justice. I just hope simple green and some more elbow grease will do the job :)

Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:10 pm

Do this....

Go get youuself a gallon of Castrol Purple Degreaser at Walmart or the FLAPS and a 1 gallon garden sprayer. Mix 50/50 with hot water. Apply liberally. Scrub with a stiff brush (like a steel brush). Allow to soak for 20 minutes. Use a garden hose to rinse.

Repeat as needed.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:40 pm

Joe,
Judging from the dirt and scum on your starter I'd say that baby is original equipment, hahaha. I think your starter should work with the new engine but you may have an input shaft that's been cut for the type 1. That may require you to get an 091 input shaft but I'm just speculating. Send me a PM and let me know what your plans are with the new engine.