TheSamba.com :: View topic - Type IV alternator tensioning tool? Mahle oil filter tool?

Sun Nov 01, 2009 10:08 pm

Have done a search and read what threads I could find.

Does anyone have a current recomendation for a tool that will work to tension a Type IV alternator other than spanners, pry bars or big screwdrivers?

Any news on filter wrenches for Mahle oil filters? I have one cap wrench that kinda works but I would like one that really works. My hands are too big, old and painful at times to get the filter loose when tight. I don't want to do the poke a hole with a screwdriver routine either AND the wrench needs to work in both directions so a 3-claw or vice grips won't work.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:01 am

If you need a wrench to remove your oil filter it's on too tight. They should be installed by hand, with thte o ring lubricated, one full turn past contact, nothing more. You should also be able to remove that same filter by hand, using no wrenches whatsoever.
As for the alternator, I've never seen it necessary to use a special tool to tighten the belt either. How many times are you tightening the belt on your one Bus that you feel the need to have a special tool just to do it? Are you just bored now that your Bus is done and for some reason want to keep shoveling cash into the project? You're making it much more difficult than it need be. In the time it took you to write this post, you could have tensioned your belt properly and been done with it.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 6:46 am

Really a medium size screwdriver is perfect for tensioning the belt, there is not alot of tension needed, just something to hold the belt in position while you tighten the allen head.

As for a filter tool, install should be by hand, but I do understand your probelm, I have oversized mitts for hands, install goes okay, sometimes removal can be a problem, I use a Lisle 50750,
http://www.toolsource.com/filter-pliers-degree-angle-p-67193.html?osCsid=96vorcd58v13f5rfv0o95cbvc4

Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:44 am

i am a bit of a sucker for specialty aircooled tools and i collect them, and enjoy using them.

the oil filter wrench for the type 4 is hazet 2596, this is the one that is a thin steel sleeve that slides over the filter, it is in the VW service manuals. it fits in the tight space available (because of the left side heater box) and works on the mann and mahle oil filters. it is very hard to find, i looked for the one i have for years and finally found it on ebay. the hazet 2172 is the 3-finger wrench which works well also and it is easy to find, still made by hazet. i find that a wrench is often needed to remove the oil filter.

i use a giant screwdriver to tension the alternator belt, it seems a bit brutal to do it this way but i've never found a tool for this or an easier way.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:51 am

I've usually done it with a block of wood against the fan pulley and a bar against the alternator pulley, I hate chewing up the bolt access hole in the tin.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:56 am

busdaddy wrote: I hate chewing up the bolt access hole in the tin.

agreed, but there is no damage to the tin if you use a long enough screwdriver or prying tool. the tool pushes against the engine case deep inside the tin and against the side of the alternator near the adjusting screw hole. the tin is not touched at all.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:58 am

VDubTech - I don't think I would be comfortable bringing any car I own to your shop. Is attacking others good for business?

I told you that with large hands and lack of grip it is hard for me to get a grip on the filter to get it off. If the filter can be taken off with finger tips it is too loose. The Acura/Honda we have torque their similar filters to 14 ft pounds. Every other car in the world is 3/4 turn past rubber touch metal. My hands cannot get up in there to unscrew the filter when it is either. Your comment on the belt is also wrong as standard fan belts stretch when they are new. This belt is now loose enough again to flop. The engine only has 250 miles on it. After it is positioned again it will be more stable.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:18 am

I'm running a Mann filter and have big hands too! I hate the fact that their end caps are smaller and won't fit in the end-cap wrench. I noticed this swivel head tool the other day at Schuck's...the handle will fold 90 deg straight down. :wink:

It's sometimes hard to get an old oily filter off by hand...especially when all the parts around it cut your hand!

As for the Alternator.....meh......no tools required.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:20 am

SGKent wrote: VDubTech - I don't think I would be comfortable bringing any car I own to your shop. Is attacking others good for business?

I told you that with large hands and lack of grip it is hard for me to get a grip on the filter to get it off. If the filter can be taken off with finger tips it is too loose. The Acura/Honda we have torque their similar filters to 14 ft pounds. Every other car in the world is 3/4 turn past rubber touch metal. My hands cannot get up in there to unscrew the filter when it is either. Your comment on the belt is also wrong as standard fan belts stretch when they are new. This belt is now loose enough again to flop. The engine only has 250 miles on it. After it is positioned again it will be more stable.

Try the "diesel" filter. Mahle OC51 (and others) IIRC. On my Westy with early style HX, it sticks below the tin and is EASY to remove with a strap wrench, or use the fitting provided and a square shaft screwdriver. As well, the extra capacity makes oil changes a full four quarts, removing the guesswork of "Is that 3.7 yet?"

Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:54 am

Quote: I've usually done it with a block of wood against the fan pulley and a bar against the alternator pulley, I hate chewing up the bolt access hole in the tin.

sounds workable. I have a case splitter at home that goes in the oil pump hole. Maybe that and a block of wood will work. I tried a long screwdriver like Scott suggested but I am too clumsy these days for that. I keep slipping and hitting the tin.

Thanks to all who offered help. I think that the pivoting oil filter wrench might do the oil filter too. And thank you Scott for the Hazet tool number. I suspected they were rare.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:16 am

Steve,

I saw one of those pivoting handle filter wrenches at the Napa on Auburn Blvd. It was a couple of weeks ago, but I'm sure they still have it.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:10 pm

i don't have my bus yet but will be getting it in the next couple of days.

BUT on my other cars i use a bar that has a fabric strap on it and it tightens onto the filter as i turn it with a 1/2 inch ratchet.

Is there enough room for one of these to fit?

Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:45 pm

Clean the filter real good and then use rubber gloves for grip. Don't over tighten the filter when putting it in. Worst case use the screwdriver.

For alternator belt I've set mine to be just tight enough to spin the alternator, too tight is just causing extra friction and pulley wear.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:21 pm

SGKent wrote:
Does anyone have a current recomendation for a tool that will work to tension a Type IV alternator other than spanners, pry bars or big screwdrivers?

You need to talk to whip618 - he made such a tool. It is badass.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:45 pm

PanicAlum wrote [/quote]I saw one of those pivoting handle filter wrenches at the Napa on Auburn Blvd. It was a couple of weeks ago, but I'm sure they still have it. Quote:

Thanks for the tip. Did you get your two carbs dialed in?

Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:04 pm

Quote: For alternator belt I've set mine to be just tight enough to spin the alternator, too tight is just causing extra friction and pulley wear.

yes and no. You really want to run off deflection at a set pressure. Too loose and the belt will hop which loads the bearings too. Too tight and the bearings wear out prematurely. I have a belt gauge that reads tension from when I was a professional mechanic. Just not used to hunting for a place to lever the alternator.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 3:56 pm

Do you have some need to counter every post I make and tell me I am wrong. For christs sake of course you don't set it so loose it flops, and CLOCKWISE is RICH!!!
I've had my 78 for 15yrs, good luck with your journey.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:22 pm

Timo78 - I hear where you are coming from BUT when mine is that loose to where it just turns the alternator it flops up and down. And we were talking different parts of the AFM. You were talking the idle screw and I was talking the gear. No disrespect was meant.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 5:22 pm

Yeah I respect your opinion but you blatantly stated I was wrong on the AFM. I was always describing the CO screw, I never even made a reference to the wiper/flap alignment, yet you proceeded to say that was wrong. Adjusting the wiper to flap alignment is major AFM brain surgery and should be done after trying to adjust by using the CO screw, as his mixture was rich at idle per Oregon DEQ testing.

On the alternator there's a measurement I think it's a 1/4 or 1/2 inch of deflection per the Bentley. I always go by feel, too tight is worse in my opinion.

Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:37 pm

It's better to just do it by what you know the criteria to be. Flopping and slipping is obviously too loose. Too tight does the bearings. Kind of like the old maids and their bowls of porridge. Too hot or too cold or just right. Where does a magic tension number from a belt gauge come from? What style of belt, what brand, what type and diameter of pulleys, pulley contact lengths, new or used, temperatures, etc. are all factors that would affect some non-magic gauge number. The only advantage would be being able to boastfully claim that it was precision adjusted by some precision gauge. Just adjust it, no biggie!