TheSamba.com :: View topic - Anyone make there Super look more like and older Bug ?

Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:51 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Yellowbeard wrote: MoparFreak69 wrote: Yellowbeard wrote: You've never seen an early fender, have you?

Nope, those headlights on those cars were just FLOATING in the air in front of it!
Dipshit

Look at an early bumper. Preferably at some point when you're sober. You'll see just how much of the early fender you need to accomplish what you're trying to pull off.

Guess the part about no bumpers didnt sink in. Its not by any means a daily or long trip driver. I see plenty of bugs around with no bumpers. Looks nice and if you think those flimsy pieces of 16 gauge steel are going to protect anything you are the drunk one.

I said nothing about the bumpers as protection.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:52 pm

Oh yeah, bumpers are all about style huh? I have always looked at a car and thought first off, hey those are some nice bumpers! Pretty much any car looks better without a bumper if done right. Their ONLY purpose is protection. Showing your smarts once again huh?

Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:56 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: I picked up a super simply because it was the only beetle I could find around here for less than $3k. I am going to try to tone down the super look by using some old style parts and such to give it the feel of an older bug! First thing I did was remove the dash pad. Gonna clean the steel up and paint it body color. Second thing thats in the works is removing those unsightly "outhouse" vents behind the rear windows. Out goes the rear window defrost glass (NOT a winter car anyway) and in goes clear. Bye Bye big honkin turn signal and tail lights. In their place goes nice sleek early style ones. I am even thinking about trying to find some very early headlight buckets/assembly (you know the one with the glass covers over them) and grafting them in. Unlike most I dont mind the round front of the hood or the extra length and will leave them be. Away goes the bumpers and the vent under the front bumper (what the heck is that for anyway???). Most important mod I am trying to scrape together: Off with the steel sunroof, in with the sliding cloth roof. A 71 Super ragtop! Hope to find an OG one for a more authentic look.

Thats my take on how I would de-super a super.

The "vent" was for factory, dealer installed air conditioning. That's where the condenser would mount.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:56 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Oh yeah, bumpers are all about style huh? I have always looked at a car and thought first off, hey those are some nice bumpers! Pretty much any car looks better without a bumper if done right. Their ONLY purpose is protection. Showing your smarts once again huh?
Newbies... when will they learn.

Uh, bumpers are part of the charm of Beetles. Many love the look of the towel bars while others like the European blades. And then there's the T-bar look.

Bumpers are important to the "early look".

Your Mopar knowledge does you no good her.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:57 pm

I was going to lurk....no. I can't do it.

If your purpose is something to play with, and you have mad skillz with a TIG, I suppose any year will do.

If your purpose is to make something to be proud of for the work you have done yourself, then I suppose any year will do.

If your purpose is to make something unique that others will be impressed with, you will be sorely disappointed, as you've probably already figured out by the reaction here.

Take your car to a show, and most of the comments you get will be insulting..to the car and to you. The kindest of which will be 'Poseur.'

If you're going to truly do something 'custom,' then do something 'custom.' Make it unique! Really unique! Don't just go for a look that has already been done by making the car in to something it is not. Get out your mad TIG skillz and do something different that NO ONE has ever seen or done before.

And that is how you do something interesting to others and still be able to look yourself in the face in the morning and not say, "Hi, Poseur!"

FWIW, I've taken three routes in my time with VWs: Restoration (8 years), Retro-Poseur (3 months) and Full Custom (9 months plus as much money as I spent on the Resto in 8 year.)

The car that has earned the most kudos, trophies, and attention was the Restoration, because no one 'Restores' Super Beetles; they see them as hackable canvasses on to which they can inflict their tastes without any backlash from the VW community at large. So to see a showroom restored SB is something that causes people to really stop and gawk. Because you *don't* see them.

My $.02.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 2:58 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Oh yeah, bumpers are all about style huh? I have always looked at a car and thought first off, hey those are some nice bumpers! Pretty much any car looks better without a bumper if done right. Their ONLY purpose is protection. Showing your smarts once again huh?

I don't care if you want to run without bumpers. I've done it myself. The point you're missing is that without bumpers, your hack job will be even more obvious. At least running early bumpers woul've helped to mask it a bit.

BTW, what do you plan to do about the windows/windshield? And door handles? And windwings?

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:05 pm

Thanks for the info Paul! I dont have ac so I will remove it.

Glenn, I do not consider T-bars to be bumpers but thats just my personal opinion. Once again the presence of bumpers is my opinion, and I am of the opinion that they look better without, and from looking at photos on here I am not alone in that statement. I never stated I wanted to clone an early car. I simply want to add some subtle hints here and there of older car stuff while still having the newer goodies underneath. I completely agree that bumpers (especially with the extra bar above it) are important to the early car look if that is the look you are going after. Mopar stuff applies to every car because an automobile is an automobile is an automobile.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:06 pm

I've got to get back in on this before the lock/deletion. I have to see this Super once you are done 69. I have a vision in my mind and it's... :shock:

Good luck trying to sell it if you ever come to that point in your life.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:06 pm

Yellowbeard wrote: MoparFreak69 wrote: Oh yeah, bumpers are all about style huh? I have always looked at a car and thought first off, hey those are some nice bumpers! Pretty much any car looks better without a bumper if done right. Their ONLY purpose is protection. Showing your smarts once again huh?

I don't care if you want to run without bumpers. I've done it myself. The point you're missing is that without bumpers, your hack job will be even more obvious. At least running early bumpers woul've helped to mask it a bit.

BTW, what do you plan to do about the windows/windshield? And door handles? And windwings?

Why so you can bash me on that too?

Just for kicks I'll tell you. Clear glass everywhere. Pop-outs in the back. Not too sure about doing 1 piece door glass or leave wings, have to see how everything fits together when I get that far. Door handles will either be chrome or black depending on how much highlights I end up with throughout the car.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:09 pm

19super73 wrote: I've got to get back in on this before the lock/deletion. I have to see this Super once you are done 69. I have a vision in my mind and it's... :shock:

Good luck trying to sell it if you ever come to that point in your life.

Lemme guess, a purist huh?
You are all the same whether its chevy, ford, etc.

It HAS to be this way because I say so!

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:10 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Mopar stuff applies to every car because an automobile is an automobile is an automobile.
Uh.... you'll find out.

Rear, aircooled engines are a totally different animal.

A good friend owns a shop that has about 40% aircooled customers. I've seen a few "A" Techs that he's hired take awhile to figure them out. The best was when he told a new guy to check the oil on a Type 2. I stood there and watched him stare at the front trying to figure out how the hood opens. After a few minutes, I told him "it's in the back". Everyone in the shop started to laugh.

And as always... it's your car, do whatever makes you happy. After all, it's only a Super, it not like your hacking up a early car.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:13 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: 19super73 wrote: I've got to get back in on this before the lock/deletion. I have to see this Super once you are done 69. I have a vision in my mind and it's... :shock:

Good luck trying to sell it if you ever come to that point in your life.

Lemme guess, a purist huh?
You are all the same whether its chevy, ford, etc.

It HAS to be this way because I say so!

That's "Purist MOFO" if you must label me. :roll: While I always say "It's your car, do with it what you like." you are fooling yourself into thinking you can take a $350 car and make it into exactly what you want for a total of $3000, even if you are going to do all the work yourself as you claim. You're already at a G note and counting and you haven't worked through the mechanical, brakes, paint and on and on...

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:14 pm

Air cooled engines are no different than any other engine except looser tolerances because they run hotter. If you really know what the hell you are doing under a hood (whether front or back) then you will have no problems. Having never touched a VW before I had the engine out in 30 mins. I will pull the tranny out later this week, looks to be another 30 minute job. Axle shafts (same on every other kind of car with CV joints), shifter shaft and mount bolts and she's out.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:16 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Glenn, I do not consider T-bars to be bumpers but thats just my personal opinion. Once again the presence of bumpers is my opinion, and I am of the opinion that they look better without, and from looking at photos on here I am not alone in that statement. I never stated I wanted to clone an early car. I simply want to add some subtle hints here and there of older car stuff while still having the newer goodies underneath. I completely agree that bumpers (especially with the extra bar above it) are important to the early car look if that is the look you are going after.
If you want an early look with modern goodies underneath, that's easily achieved by updating an early car. Many project earlies you're going to see already have quite a few update already completed. No hacking required.
MoparFreak69 wrote: Mopar stuff applies to every car because an automobile is an automobile is an automobile.

You couldn't be more wrong if you told me the earth was flat. Aside from basic four-cycle engine theory, practically nothing about American Iron translates to ACVWs.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:19 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Air cooled engines are no different than any other engine except looser tolerances because they run hotter.
No they don't. If they do, you're doing it wrong.
MoparFreak69 wrote: Having never touched a VW before I had the engine out in 30 mins.
Wow! You unbolted four bolts and slid the engine backward! What, you want a cookie? The fucking thing was designed to be easily removed!

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:21 pm

19super73 wrote:
That's "Purist MOFO" if you must label me. :roll: While I always say "It's your car, do with it what you like." you are fooling yourself into thinking you can take a $350 car and make it into exactly what you want for a total of $3000, even if you are going to do all the work yourself as you claim. You're already at a G note and counting and you haven't worked through the mechanical, brakes, paint and on and on...

Ok, Purist MOFO if thats how you want it. Makes no difference to me.
Either way I am doing how I envision it and nobody is going to change that. I am into the car a grand right now. That includes everything needed to slam it and stop it. Engine is 75% done, also in that G. New jugs/pistons/rings/pins/intakes. Have Kadrons ready to be rebuilt and have kits, also in that grand. Only thing I am missing engine wise is top of cylinder tins and a few pieces of linkage. Trans feels fine with the exception of a shift fork pin missing/broken. Axles are good as are rear brakes. Front discs also in the grand im into it. Lets see, brake lines $25 a Napa, I will bend and flare them myself. Brake hoses $40 at a local supplier built to my specs. Fuel tank, Cleanout, $25 at a local shop. Wiring, just needs a little tlc but not much, easily done for "free". I have found a ragtop roof complete except cloth for $500. Cost to install it - free. If all else fails an aftermarket ragtop recommended by several dub friends runs $500 complete. Paint and bodywork, I'll do myself. Probably spend $400 on paint to get the good stuff.

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:23 pm

Yellowbeard wrote: MoparFreak69 wrote: Air cooled engines are no different than any other engine except looser tolerances because they run hotter.
No they don't. If they do, you're doing it wrong.
MoparFreak69 wrote: Having never touched a VW before I had the engine out in 30 mins.
Wow! You unbolted four bolts and slid the engine backward! What, you want a cookie? The fucking thing was designed to be easily removed!
Ever rebuilt a real engine? When was the last time you saw a real engine allow .010" piston to wall clearance like the vw manual says? a real engine is around .040 - .060 TOPS and its sloppy. How about ring end clearances? Same story. Its a fact air cooled engines run hotter, ESPECIALLY #3 in a bug because of oil cooler blockage. Oh wait, only veteran dubber can know that right?

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:26 pm

julrich366 wrote: That monstrosity made baby Jesus cry! :cry:
Really???
You must be speaking of Jesus the Mexican (pronounced HEY-soos).

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:30 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Ever rebuilt a real engine?
Only my daily drivers, my race cars, my show cars, and some friends cars in the last twenty years... :roll:
MoparFreak69 wrote: Its a fact air cooled engines run hotter, ESPECIALLY #3 in a bug because of oil cooler blockage. Oh wait, only veteran dubber can know that right?

Maybe the air-cooled VW engines you've built have run hotter than a water-cooled. Mine don't. 190 degree oil temp and 225 degree cylinder head temp. And #3 only runs hotter in early-style non-doghouse engines. The doghouse cooling system takes the oil cooler out of the way of #3 cylinder. But you knew that, right?

Wed Nov 04, 2009 3:30 pm

Yellowbeard wrote: The fucking thing was designed to be easily removed!

Sounds like somebody is getting upset. So you are saying I literally ONLY have to remove 4 bolts to get the engine out. I dont have to deal with the weather seal that is probably stiff and in the way. The fuel line can stay connected. Dont have to disconnect the coil at all either. The generator can stay connected. Those heater box clamps, they just remove themselves so dont worry about that. The remote oil cooler lines, they can stay there, no need to worry about them huh? Oh and not to mention the engine has been in the car for 20+ years so there is probably no grease or grime or rusty bolts anywhere. Everything just finger tight huh?
You're a quick one ;)