TheSamba.com :: View topic - First Dub! Ton of Q's ....... You have been warned!

Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:03 pm

I work at a Cadillac dealer, I get to drive lots of neat stuff: Giant Escalades, floaty Fleetwoods, and extremely fast CTS-V's (yes the new one with 568 HP! LOTS of fun!). They all have lots of bells and whistles, Devilles even came with night vision and a lumbar back massager. I own a 1998 Seville that is very well equipped as well. But guess what car I drove to work all spring, all summer and all autumn this year? My humble Beetle, with none of this equipment! For some reason it's just more fun. If you get it, that is. And some people just don't.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:13 pm

I get it, they are simply COOL. Who else makes a car that can be picked up out of parking spot and moved across the lot by 4 mediumish built guys? Who else makes a car where you can replace the clutch in an hour with a beer in your hand? DUBS are COOL. No arguement. I didnt buy mine bacause I hate it lol!

Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:58 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Yellowbeard wrote:
If you think that a car's auction value has anything at all to do with its restoration cost, you're more deluded than I thought. The easiest way I can think of to lose money is to build a car with an eye toward selling it for a profit.

Well, considering auctions are very indicitave of who wants to buy what and how much they are willing to give for it, I would say auction values are very reliable ways to value a car. if nobody wants it, regardless of make/model/etc, it wont sell at auction or anywhere else.

You apparently didn't read that post before you quoted it. 'Value', be it auction or otherwise, is not even remotely tied to cost of build. It's quite easy to get $60k into restoring a car that will only have an auction value of $30-40k.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:03 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Yellowbeard wrote:
One can easily spend just as much on a VW resto/resto-custom as on an American car. Just ask Rich's50. Or Lenny Copp. Or Jesse James (Yes, that Jesse James.)

Oh so I guess I better bow down because Jesse James (yeah I know who he is) is a member here huh and that makes everything everybody says is correct?

No...You said:
MoparFreak69 wrote: Building a classic car can and will run MUCH more than it would cost to build any VW. You are drunk or high if you think otherwise.
I suggested you ask folks who have DONE exactly what you said couldn't be done. Go ahead. No really, go ahead. I'll wait.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:28 pm

Just because you CAN spend as much, doesnt mean you need to or should. SURE I can pay a body guy $150 an hour and ask him to take his sweet as time just so the car costs more. You can pretty much buy a VW in parts and build one (except core pan and main body assembly) and still only be into it a couple thousand $$$. Try finding a rear quarter panel for a 1956 Chevy Nomad. Go ahead, I'll wait. You can find a sedan one that you have to spend hours modifying it to fit, but nobody sells a repoped quarter for a 56 Nomad. Go ahead, ask me how I know that. The sedan one you have to modify runs almost $1k per side (sure you can get a cheapo 22gauger for $750, but we are made of money right?). Figure in the time to even get it to fit, and you just bought yourself a solid beetle body, maybe even a runner if you're really good.

My point is yes, you CAN spend a ton of money building up an ACVW. But if you use the same thought pattern on building any classic or muscle car, the VW will pail in comparison to the costs of that muscle car.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:15 pm

Mopar, why did your OP state that you had tons of questions? It doesn't seem like you have any question, just answers, you already know everything. If you can put you ego in check and just listen, you might learn something.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:28 pm

I had the initial "what do you think of my ideas" questions I posted in the beginning of the thread. I was planning on asking some more questions after I get some responses and feedback. Things didnt quite work out that way and after my unusually warm welcome the topic got sidetracked and a big pissing contest has ensued. Me being the kind of person I am wont let a dead dog lie when I can come back and keep stirring up the pot. I really am a nice guy and when given proper due, will listen respectfully to anybodies ideas they wish to present to me. When I am personally attacked, I will answer the call.

To all those who think I am dead serious about the majority of what has been stated on this thread by me, I must tell you I am not. Some of my posts have been made out of anger (good job riling me up like that yellowbeard) but a lot of them are just me being me screwing around.

I do value a lot of the opinions I have gotten on here, and aside from this thread and the other disaster (I guess people dont like cross breeding between the supers and standards) of a thread I feel that the community has as much to offer me as I do it.

I actually kinda like this thread now lol. It has gone full circle and every which way I would never have imagined. Went from Hi, what do you think, to F@&* you, to Oh yeah well im better at this, to Flatheads, to god knows what else, back to F@&* you lol.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:49 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Just because you CAN spend as much, doesnt mean you need to or should. SURE I can pay a body guy $150 an hour and ask him to take his sweet as time just so the car costs more. You can pretty much buy a VW in parts and build one (except core pan and main body assembly) and still only be into it a couple thousand $$$.
That's odd. When I bought parts for my last VW restoration, I was into it for nearly two grand in rubber parts alone. You must have a super-secret parts source no one else knows about. Sure, you can assemble a VW from a basket case for a couple grand. But you can't do it correctly. Not opinion. Fact.
MoparFreak69 wrote: Try finding a rear quarter panel for a 1956 Chevy Nomad. Go ahead, I'll wait. You can find a sedan one that you have to spend hours modifying it to fit, but nobody sells a repoped quarter for a 56 Nomad. Go ahead, ask me how I know that. The sedan one you have to modify runs almost $1k per side (sure you can get a cheapo 22gauger for $750, but we are made of money right?).
The same goes for VWs. You just unwittingly proved the point I've been making all along. Quality parts cost money. You can cobble a VW together on the cheap, but you can't do it correctly. As for your '56 Nomad question, I know where's there's a bone-dry '56 Nomad in a junkyard. VERY close to you. You could've had the whole car for a grand. Cut the rear quarters off it and sell the chrome for more than what you've got invested in the whole car. Isn't that what makes VWs cheaper? Being able to find them in junkyards?
MoparFreak69 wrote: My point is yes, you CAN spend a ton of money building up an ACVW. But if you use the same thought pattern on building any classic or muscle car, the VW will pail in comparison to the costs of that muscle car.
...Says the guy who's never restored a VW...

Sat Nov 07, 2009 2:54 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: To all those who think I am dead serious about the majority of what has been stated on this thread by me, I must tell you I am not. Some of my posts have been made out of anger (good job riling me up like that yellowbeard) but a lot of them are just me being me screwing around.
Typical noob move. Come in spouting uneducated bullshit...get called on it by folks who know better...try to deflect attention away from it by attempting to change the subject...then for the big finish: "I was just screwin' around". Textbook. Thanks for playing.
MoparFreak69 wrote: I feel that the community has as much to offer me as I do it.
And I feel this community has much more to offer you than you do it. We'll agree to disagree.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:02 pm

Yellowbeard wrote: I know where's there's a bone-dry '56 Nomad in a junkyard. VERY close to you.

I'll bet I know exactly where that is, too. I've walked trough a boneyard that had hundreds upon hundreds of excellent parts cars from the '20s through the '70s.

It's either Jim's Vintage Auto here in Mountain Home, or that place in Caldwell that I can't remember the name of.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:09 pm

Alister wrote: Yellowbeard wrote: I know where's there's a bone-dry '56 Nomad in a junkyard. VERY close to you.

I'll bet I know exactly where that is, too. I've walked trough a boneyard that had hundreds upon hundreds of excellent parts cars from the '20s through the '70s.

It's either Jim's Vintage Auto here in Mountain Home, or that place in Caldwell that I can't remember the name of.

Neither one...but you're getting warmer... :wink:

Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:14 pm

Yellowbeard wrote: Neither one...but you're getting warmer... :wink:

Fruitland? Jerome? Which way's warmer??

C'mon... give a dog a bone, here! I'm not interested in it (WAY out of my affordability range), but I got a buddy in Portland who'd be interested.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 3:46 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Thanks for a very well stated history Fitz of rage. You absolutely did not come off as anything but respectful and I appreciate that.

I personally disagree that all your wrenching experience means nothing in relationship to a VW but that is my opinion and you have yours, im not trying to sway you, you aren't trying to sway me.

Every mechanic is going to make a mistake every now and then whether they like to admit it or not. It goes with the territory. Sometimes funds/time dictate whether you used the right parts or not (ie: 1/4" fuel line instead of OG type stuff). Thats the way of life. I dont know how many bugs and busses I have seen with duct tape and bailing twine holding something or other on, been like that for years too. Do I agree with that method, no, but it aint my ride.

Oh and actually age group does give me a whole lotta insite about it. Had you been in the "retirement" age group, I bet your response would have been a whole lot more bitter. Thats exactly what I see from these guys, Bitterness.

Ha! You're dead-right about the bailing wire, duct tape and chewing gum rebuilds--I drove them as a teenager! These cars are pretty amazing in that regard. They'll respond well to most attempts to keep them going down the road, for a while anyway. In that regard, wrenching experience is invaluable. Same goes for the bulk of obvious stuff--don't over-torque, do keep an extinguisher at hand... Intake, compression, ignition, exhaust...

I think it's more the nuance that needs be learned. For instance, a hotter spark plug is a good thing for most cars, but not a VW. Too much oil doesn't mean much for a 292 Chevy, but can be disatrous in a VW... Little stuff, but the kind that can be big, you know?

Mostly, it's just a learning curve, and a steep, quick one for an experienced wrench. I'm stoked to see what you've got going. Forget the bitterness. People can be upset when they offer help, and the web is a difficult communication medium--pretty black and white. Rest assured, even those who come off as coarse have a good intentions. For me, that's what's the best about ACVW. Decent folks, decent community.

If you're ever up around Portland with a sticky valve, hit me up. I'd be glad to offer help, work space, beer... :D

Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:01 pm

I wish you would have told me about that car a couple months ago as we already got the bodywork straight on it now.

Im glad to hear that you have 2 grand to throw into rubber parts! Would I spend that much on rubber? Not even on tires! I thought $800 for the 33's on my truck was bad enough.

I completely agree with you fitz of rage, little nuances with a vw can be more affecting than on a typical watercooled. Subarus have a lot of the same little things that you have to pay a little closer attention to than say my Cummins in my pickup. Too much oil and the pistons are slapping it around, instead of just crankshaft weights. I havent heard about the hotter plug situation, but it can make sense as the engine usually runs at optimal temp all the time (no thermostat to stick open and keep the engine at 120 all day long) so no need for hotter plugs.

Like I said, I think of this thread as a drama thread and so I may come back a few times with snappy or cocky responses to fit the whole ordeal going on here. If you notice any of my other posts around I have provided useful valuable information to people who could use it and I believe (I may just be crazy here) that yellowbeard even backed up one of my responses with a link and nothing derogatory. I guess its one for the home team lol!

Come on guys lets lighten this thread up a little bit. I'm exciting to get wrenching on my dub and will be back out there as soon as I finish some stupid English papers.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:01 pm

Alister wrote: Yellowbeard wrote: Neither one...but you're getting warmer... :wink:

Fruitland? Jerome? Which way's warmer??

C'mon... give a dog a bone, here! I'm not interested in it (WAY out of my affordability range), but I got a buddy in Portland who'd be interested.

What, and let him sneak it out from underneath me?!?

[-X

:lol:

Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:04 pm

I know of a guy out in the Parma area that has a 55 Sedan delivery and a 57 2 door wagon for sale, but dont know of any 56 nomads around here.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:11 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: the engine usually runs at optimal temp all the time (no thermostat to stick open and keep the engine at 120 all day long) so no need for hotter plugs.

These must be figments of my imagination:

Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:13 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: I know of a guy out in the Parma area that has a 55 Sedan delivery and a 57 2 door wagon for sale, but dont know of any 56 nomads around here.

We Bitter Old Geezers (Local 1167) know how to keep our treasures hidden... :wink:

Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:13 pm

What is that thing out of?

Sat Nov 07, 2009 4:16 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: What is that thing out of?

It's the nonexistent thermostat. Out of a Beetle.