TheSamba.com :: View topic - First Dub! Ton of Q's ....... You have been warned!

Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:10 pm

just wanna say that you should move your fuel filter to the line that comes into the pump. right now you've got it after, so any gunk that may be in the tank will get into your pump. it may never harm it but in the same respect it might

Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:16 pm

mjenner wrote: just wanna say that you should move your fuel filter to the line that comes into the pump. right now you've got it after, so any gunk that may be in the tank will get into your pump. it may never harm it but in the same respect it might

In direct violation of Samba Edict 32817:

"get it out of the engine compartment."

Carry on.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 3:53 pm

mjenner wrote: just wanna say that you should move your fuel filter to the line that comes into the pump. right now you've got it after, so any gunk that may be in the tank will get into your pump. it may never harm it but in the same respect it might

I just bought it so I'm learning as I go. Thanks for the tip, I may never have noticed that... that is until it plugged up my pump. :)

Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:30 pm

Yeah...kind of from the 'If you have a $5 head, buy a $5 helmet' school of thought.

M

Thu Nov 05, 2009 5:47 pm

My Kadrons are old-school, not china. And just for reference for all you other "haters", all my EMPI stuff I just bought said it was made in Brazil. I hear a lot of word about get brazilian this, get brazilian that so whats wrong with my EMPI stuff from there?

As far as keeping it local, guess what, nobody in Idaho makes Dub parts so either way the money is going out of state. If I buy from a mail-order catalog from the "super seller venders" sure the initial prices may be "comparable" to the EMPI "crap" I bought locally but I didn't have to pay shipping on top of it! And how many parts are really made in the US? Not that many, so either way my money is going out of country. Why not support my local shop and buy from him so he at least gets his mark-up instead of some guy in California?

If you dont like my parts or ideas, Well I'm sorry to hear about that. I got over it, you should too! Im not a purist and cant pretend I care where a purist comes from. A car is a car, end of story.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:11 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: My Kadrons are old-school, not china. And just for reference for all you other "haters", all my EMPI stuff I just bought said it was made in Brazil. I hear a lot of word about get brazilian this, get brazilian that so whats wrong with my EMPI stuff from there?

As far as keeping it local, guess what, nobody in Idaho makes Dub parts so either way the money is going out of state. If I buy from a mail-order catalog from the "super seller venders" sure the initial prices may be "comparable" to the EMPI "crap" I bought locally but I didn't have to pay shipping on top of it! And how many parts are really made in the US? Not that many, so either way my money is going out of country. Why not support my local shop and buy from him so he at least gets his mark-up instead of some guy in California?

If you dont like my parts or ideas, Well I'm sorry to hear about that. I got over it, you should too! Im not a purist and cant pretend I care where a purist comes from. A car is a car, end of story. I am not a purist, and with that in mind I will once again state the following:

EMPI IS SHIT.

Also, EMPI SUCKS.

Here's another clever one:
Every
Mistake
Passes
Inspection

The bottom line is that you're a NOOB to VW's, so accept it. A lot of us are willing to help, but you have this attitude that you think you know better, and it shows in your posts.

Who the hell told you to buy Brazilian? If this were 1985, I'd tell you to do so if funds were thin, but Brazilian is total crap as well. Quality control is next to nothing. I have Brazilian rubber for my doors -- the passenger side fits great, but the driver's side is too long/large and keeps popping out. The overall shape of the seal is poor.

I can tell you this: there's a company out there called GEX that used to be really good when it came to building VW engines. Then, somewhere around 1995, the people there started to cut corners on builds such as reusing old bearings, not turning the cranks, using all-thread for the studs, etc. And every once-in-a-while, some poor Noob/Schmuck comes along and is just ABSOLUTELY SOLD on the fact that GEX sells a "turn key" engine for cheap and get all butt hurt (like you are right now) when those of us who know try to warn against it. Next thing you know, Mr Noob is upset because the engine went to shit in less than 2,500 miles (if that) and starts whining that he was taken advantage of and/or talks real big about taking GEX to court. Read the Buyer/Seller forum some time about GEX if you don't believe me.

Anyway, there are people out there who will say, "Yeah, I'm happy with my EMPI stuff" only because they either A) are too cheap to spend good money for good parts, or B) they don't want to admit that what they have it total shit.

Like I said before, if you have to tell yourself that you "know what you got" in order to sleep at night, then so be it. But people here don't forget, and the moment you come back and complain or even mention an issue, people here will rub it in your nose like a dog who just shit on the carpet.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:29 pm

I have no problem with that, but I am also not an idiot. I have a very large knowledge of most anything hydraulic, mechanical or electronic related. After spending 8 years in the Army as a Missile System repair technician (Including Night vision, not that light amplification crap, im talking IR) I started working for a heavy equipment dealer as a crane technician. I have repaired and certified many pieces of equipment that are rated in excess of 500tons. I personally had phone meeting with mechanical engineers from a crane manufacturer known as Manitowoc about a boom lift issue that was due to poor design. With my guidance they produced a retrofit that has been certified to fix a problem that has plauged that product line since its inseption 3 years ago. Imagine being 150ft in the air in a basket, trying to come down and hear a very loud deep thud and have the basket drop 2 feet from under you after the boom tension finally released.
I am only providing this background so that you can see I am very familiar with what works under severe conditions and what does not. I personally checked MY parts and found they are more than adequate for the task I have for them. Other's may not have been so lucky and I feel for them.
Just because it is from a respected manufacturer doesnt mean you wont get garbage. This engine I built for my boss's Woody

What brand is on the heads? Edelbrock never screws anything up right? Why did we have to machine .150" out of every piston dome because they cannot get their specs right. After researching the problem when we could not turn the engine over all the way we discovered that this problem happens with almost every head that edelbrock currently makes for flathead v-8's. So by that saying guess what, EDELBROCK is SHIT! 100% issues in one product line so EDELBROCK is SHIT!

I would NEVER buy a turn key engine from anyone whether with high recommendations or not. I build my own stuff so that I know it is done right.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:06 am

MoparFreak69 wrote: As far as keeping it local, guess what, nobody in Idaho makes Dub parts so either way the money is going out of state.
You may not be able to keep your money from going out of state, but you can keep it from going out of the country...
MoparFreak69 wrote:
If I buy from a mail-order catalog from the "super seller venders" sure the initial prices may be "comparable" to the EMPI "crap" I bought locally but I didn't have to pay shipping on top of it!
If you can't afford to pay shipping, mybe you need to rethink whether or not you can afford to restore old cars. Besides, if you buy from out-of-state, you pay shipping, but no sales tax. Buy locally; sales tax, but no shipping. It's a push.
MoparFreak69 wrote: And how many parts are really made in the US?
In my humble opinion, the best parts available to this hobby are made here. Problem being, the builders of those parts don't have glossy catalogs to look at. To wit:
http://www.glenn-ring.com/bosch/
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=495640
If either of those two gentlemen had to put out a glossy catalog, they'd be out of business. And that's a shame, because Empi on it's best day can't match the quality of their product.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:21 am

Another point to bear in mind:

There is Mexican (aftermarket) and Mexican (VW of Mexico), and Mexican (The parts that VWoM QA rejected which unscrupulous jerks buy for scrap and then sell as genuine VWoM replacement parts in the states.

The same thing happens with Brazilian parts. Three categories.

Even if you were to avoid every part that says, 'Made in China'
or 'Made in Taiwan' you would still be 4 to 2 against sourcing a quality part. The Mex and Brazilian aftermarket parts are junk. But the Mexican and Brazilian parts that pass QA are quite good.

Mr Mopar, did you know all that? I doubt it. I've been kicking around this hobby for 20 years and only got myself educated to those subtle but crucial differences in that last year.

This isn't about whether you're smart or not. Nor what you did for a living in a former life. It's about knowing the market and the sources for 'new' parts, something that you cannot learn except by closing your mouth and opening your ears. Unless you are a metallurgist or have spent years building and rebuilding these engines and cars, you will make mistakes (as I continue to do) on your way to being more educated.

If you're a vet and you've delivered hundreds of colts, it doesn't automatically qualify you to deliver a giraffe...even if they are both mammals.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:37 am

webwalker wrote:
If you're a vet and you've delivered hundreds of colts, it doesn't automatically qualify you to deliver a giraffe...even if they are both mammals.

This is a perfect analogy. My brother worked at Mack as a technician, and before that on cars at dealerships. Now who do you think came to him to fix their gas powered cars and trucks when they had trouble? The same guys he worked with that had their heavy tickets and worked on highway diesel trucks. They had no clue what to do with a car.

I could work at NASA on the shuttles but that doesn't mean it translates to everything else mechanical. In the end if someone doesn't want to accept or believe the advice they are given, just walk away with the knowledge that they will eventually learn even if they will never admit it.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:15 am

MoparFreak69 wrote: Why did we have to machine .150" out of every piston dome because they cannot get their specs right.
We can't make a judgement based on the limited information you gave us.
How far had the block been decked?
Stock crank or stroker?
Rods?
Pistons?
Correct combination of rods, pistons, and crank?
What were the piston crowns hitting?
How did you determine the .150" number to be enough?
Did you run the engine through with the stock heads on it to determine if it was a head problem and not a rotating assembly problem?
Did you cc the heads?
Did you call Edelbrock?
Did you call Flathead Jack?

Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:06 pm

Yellowbeard wrote: mjenner wrote: just wanna say that you should move your fuel filter to the line that comes into the pump. right now you've got it after, so any gunk that may be in the tank will get into your pump. it may never harm it but in the same respect it might

In direct violation of Samba Edict 32817:

"get it out of the engine compartment."

Carry on.

I've got a question, probably a dumb one. I can completely understand removing the fuel filter from the engine compartment, but, since it has not had one before the fuel pump.. would I be better to put an additional one before the fuel pump FOR A SHORT TIME Just in case there happened to be some junk in the line or pump so it would prevent it getting into the carb? Then after a while take out the one in the engine compartment?

Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:13 pm

Yellowbeard wrote: MoparFreak69 wrote: Why did we have to machine .150" out of every piston dome because they cannot get their specs right.
We can't make a judgement based on the limited information you gave us.
How far had the block been decked?
Stock crank or stroker?
Rods?
Pistons?
Correct combination of rods, pistons, and crank?
What were the piston crowns hitting?
How did you determine the .150" number to be enough?
Did you run the engine through with the stock heads on it to determine if it was a head problem and not a rotating assembly problem?
Did you cc the heads?
Did you call Edelbrock?
Did you call Flathead Jack?

Sorry for leaving the vitals out.
Virgin block, .010 decking for this build to clean it up.
Has the Merc crank (1/4" extra throw) but this engine was running prior to the head install (had factory fords with no mods done).
We did not cc the heads as they were supposed to have been done by Edelbrock. We called them, they were aware of the problem and advised us of the machining necessary to get them to "fit correctly".
We used a machine shop that has been in the valley since 1946 and is very aware of how and what to do to a flathead. They had never seen the problem before with offy heads, no experience with Edelbrocks as they are fairly new to flatheads.

I was just making a point that just because there can be some fitment issues, even with the best brands, it doesnt discount the entire brand as junk. My EMPI intakes were cast based on the original EMPI style from their hayday in the 70's. Other than a bit more of a rough cast texture than I prefer, there is absolutely no difference in quality than some originals I saw just the other day. They are cast true and machined so that the carbs sit flat as they are supposed to.
I am not saying everything EMPI is greatness either, just adding my $.02 as to my experience with my EMPI parts.

As far as going through guys like Glenn and the other link you posted, I am certainly going to have a chat with Glenn about my distributor needs. I am absolutely certain he uses the best quality parts he can find and the best methods he knows.
The other link doesnt apply to me at this time, but you never know, I may win the lottery and have a ton of money to have him build me something wild. Probably not but you never know.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:16 pm

mdpry wrote:

I've got a question, probably a dumb one. I can completely understand removing the fuel filter from the engine compartment, but, since it has not had one before the fuel pump.. would I be better to put an additional one before the fuel pump FOR A SHORT TIME Just in case there happened to be some junk in the line or pump so it would prevent it getting into the carb? Then after a while take out the one in the engine compartment?

I dont think they were eluding to removing the filter completely, at least I hope not. I think they were saying to clean up the appearance, relocate it (maybe under the "trunk lid" just outside of the tank) so that it is hidden and out of the way.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:32 pm

mdpry wrote: Yellowbeard wrote: mjenner wrote: just wanna say that you should move your fuel filter to the line that comes into the pump. right now you've got it after, so any gunk that may be in the tank will get into your pump. it may never harm it but in the same respect it might

In direct violation of Samba Edict 32817:

"get it out of the engine compartment."

Carry on.

I've got a question, probably a dumb one. I can completely understand removing the fuel filter from the engine compartment, but, since it has not had one before the fuel pump.. would I be better to put an additional one before the fuel pump FOR A SHORT TIME Just in case there happened to be some junk in the line or pump so it would prevent it getting into the carb? Then after a while take out the one in the engine compartment?

All tanks up to 1973 have an in-tank screen. Change that out and you'll be fine.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:40 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: I dont think they were eluding to removing the filter completely, at least I hope not. I think they were saying to clean up the appearance, relocate it (maybe under the "trunk lid" just outside of the tank) so that it is hidden and out of the way.

No....we were saying it's a fire hazard.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:42 pm

mdpry wrote: I've got a question, probably a dumb one. I can completely understand removing the fuel filter from the engine compartment, but, since it has not had one before the fuel pump.. would I be better to put an additional one before the fuel pump FOR A SHORT TIME Just in case there happened to be some junk in the line or pump so it would prevent it getting into the carb? Then after a while take out the one in the engine compartment?
If you want an accessory fuel filter, mount it inline under the fuel tank.

Or...Get a factory pump with a field-serviceable internal fuel filter. I know a guy that sells 'em. :wink:

Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:47 pm

I'm a total noob to aircooled vw's. If I looked over any EMPI part that I could need and it looked perfectly good, I still wouldnt buy it. I havent even bought ANY parts for my beetle yet, but just from the amount of experienced people on here who say EMPI is shit, I would stay the hell away from them. I think its worth it to give a little more money to the people who deserve it, and in the end you get a quality part

Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:54 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: We called them, they were aware of the problem and advised us of the machining necessary to get them to "fit correctly".
Did they give you a reason why they didn't work?
MoparFreak69 wrote: no experience with Edelbrocks as they are fairly new to flatheads.
Vic Sr. is rolling over in his grave right now...
MoparFreak69 wrote: As far as going through guys like Glenn and the other link you posted, I am certainly going to have a chat with Glenn about my distributor needs. I am absolutely certain he uses the best quality parts he can find and the best methods he knows.
I think that's understating it a bit.
MoparFreak69 wrote: The other link doesnt apply to me at this time, but you never know, I may win the lottery and have a ton of money to have him build me something wild. Probably not but you never know.
Keith doesn't only build 'wild' carbs. He does properly rebuilt (and tuned) stock carbs. His work eliminates a large portion of the carb problems posters here have.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:20 pm

amazinglarry104 wrote: I'm a total noob to aircooled vw's. If I looked over any EMPI part that I could need and it looked perfectly good, I still wouldnt buy it. I havent even bought ANY parts for my beetle yet, but just from the amount of experienced people on here who say EMPI is shit, I would stay the hell away from them. I think its worth it to give a little more money to the people who deserve it, and in the end you get a quality part

Thank you for a modicum of sanity here. I will admit not everything EMPI makes is garbage but that's just the law of averages. That or it's something they are buying from another manufacturer until they can reverse engineer it. Buying from EMPI is akin to ignoring the serial rapist that lives next door. He only rapes nuns, secretaries, teachers and crossing guards. But you are a bus driver so it's ok as he has done no harm to you. Who cares what a fellow human being has gone through, it's all about you after all.