TheSamba.com :: View topic - First Dub! Ton of Q's ....... You have been warned!

Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:18 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Think 2 shots of spit will do it or will it need 3?

3. And maybe some duct tape... :wink:

Fri Nov 06, 2009 8:18 pm

bnam wrote: Iberian Red. This is the color on my 71.

Thanks bnam! The wife says BINGO! Thats the color. Sometimes translations get lost in searches.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:21 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: bnam wrote: Iberian Red. This is the color on my 71.

Thanks bnam! The wife says BINGO! Thats the color. Sometimes translations get lost in searches.

Is that Ginger Red? It matches your hair color nicely.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:33 pm

Howd you know I have red hair???? Its actually more of a copper color but you know how that goes.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 9:43 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote: Howd you know I have red hair???? Its actually more of a copper color but you know how that goes.

Ben, I understand. :D

Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:11 pm

MoparFreak69 wrote:

That's a nice looking flattie!

However, it doesn't matter what you've fixed, built, painted, or machined, or what you think you know. That's not a VW motor, and you'll do well to forget what you've learned elsewhere and accept the fact you don't know about ACVW. You asked for help. On this page, there is a lifetime of trial and error condensed into easily understood help. Take it or leave it, but please, take it!

Do yourself a favor, buy Muir's Guide and The Bentley Manual, take your EMPI catalogue and line the cat's box with it, and sit down somewhere quiet and clear your head. These cars are both remarkably and deceptively easy to understand, and therein lies the trouble.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 11:10 pm

Dont have an EMPI catalog. I have a pair of intakes and a pair of strut towers. How does that equate to a catalog.
So am I to assume that an air cooled boxer 4 is not an internal combustion 4 stroke engine? Am I to assume that throughout the almost 70 years they were built in Germany that they still held most of their 1930's design which was and still is dirt simple that I am incorrect and they are deceptively super difficult and only someone with extensive training can master. So those $25 Beetles by dad bought and raced while he was stationed in Germany really were mechanical wonders that were always on the brink of not functioning if everything were perfect? I have looked through his Petersons publications on "everything about vw's" most are dated 1970,1971. You know whats really really funny to me? I see not much has changed much since all those tricked out bugs/buses/etc. Sure they might have reshaped a few all out race cases a bit different. Sure they might have modded an electronic pickup to fit into a vw distributor body. Sure in the mid 70's vw even came out with a rudimentary at best Fi system but other than that, what has changed? Parts suppliers, sure. Paint styles, thank god yes. Basic fundamentals of what works and what doesnt? No way. Dual Kadrons on a mild boxer perform well, same as they did then. Spice the motor up and they work even better, same as they did then. These cars were designed BEFORE WW2! There is nothing complicated about them WHATSOEVER!
It really cracks me up seeing all you people so serious about this. What is the deal? I like my vw and got it because it was CHEAP to work on and SIMPLE to work on! If I wanted to spend tons of money building a car, it would be my 1968 Dodge Dart, not a $350 Beetle.
VWs are a simple mechanical machine no matter what way you slice it. You can cry and complain for the rest of your life that I am wrong, but in the end who really is right?
YES, there are some things that are a bit "different" on a VW that doesnt apply to a lot of other cars. Are any of them a matter of life or death? No way in hell! Will my car burn to the ground because I didnt use the correct style of cooler housing for the year of my car? Nope, although I do want to have the right one to make it as efficient and reliable as possible.
Hmm lets see, a torsion bar suspension, where have I seen that before, lets see maybe a Bradley tank? Yep, worked on those.
Where have I seen a Mcpherson strut suspension system? Only just about every car made since 1980 at least, some sooner.
Where have I seen an aircooled engine with pushrod tubes? Hmm, does Harley make those still, DING DING DING they DO!
Where have I seen a vehicle with an 8 circuit wiring system? Once again, any car made since at least the 80's.
You can fool yourself, but not everyone else. Vw's are cool. They are no swiss watch with precision pieces.
If you want to race one, you build it precise, If you want to drive one, you build it like you want and drive the damn thing!

The purpose of this forum and every other one like it (just look for any make and model and you will find one like it) is to pass those little tidbits of info along and keep the trend alive. Bitching and whining about my choices and ideas does nothing for anybody. Hell I got a PM from someone who just signed up, read my thread and decided he wants to look elsewhere for his info as he couldnt stand the attitude. Get over it. I came here to get some good info and offer some good info. Knowing nothing about vw engines I still explained to another member how the oiling system in the heads work, you know why? ITS THE SAME DAMN THING EVERYBODY ELSE DOES ON ALMOST EVERY OTHER MOTOR!

Ok, end of rant, recess is over kids, back to class.

I'm not trying to come over as an ass, but this attitude im getting from the majority of the members here, pretty much all of whom im almost 100% certain are either at or above retirement age, is absolutely rediculous. What happened to spread the love? Not keep the love within a small group of people who have been wrenching on these things for 40 years and dont want to accept that somebody else may know a thing or two about the subject that they are "experts" on.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:05 am

Holy shit, really you're still arguing about EMPI, Really?! The guy doesn't mind his INTAKES which consist of cast metal under almost no structural stress and if they fail guess what happens, your engine runs crappy or not at all. My point is, VW intakes are extremely simple, if they fit and don't leak, they're fine (of course, make sure the insides are clear of metal shavings and crud like that). Although, struts, eh, that's more important, I can see a worry about those, except that he fails to heed warnings, so whatever, leave him be.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:29 am

Moparfreak,

Please step outside for a second..

You asked on several occasions how one would feel if approached in this way or that way.. take that advice- you stated you are a first time VW owner.. experienced owners gave their honest feedback. Simple as that.

I'm new here too, and like you, I just purchased my first Beetle. I asked a few questions and got a few answers. I took what I needed, and left the rest and the door.

Out of all the VW fans that I've met, I've never met one that was an asshole.. that is just my experience though. I think more than likely, no one is being an asshole.. rather, they are trying to save you the heartache and headaches that they have already been through..

That is why I signed up to this site.. I read it, realized these people could help a noob like myself, and asked what I didn't know. I think this site is a great tool if you will use it as such. A lot of great threads here.

I hope you stick around and gain what is offered here.. it benefits us all..

Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:18 am

MoparFreak69 wrote: It really cracks me up seeing all you people so serious about this. What is the deal?
We want to see these cars continue to be loved, enjoyed, and running on the roads of this fine nation. We want it so much that we get serious when someonewho, by their own admission, shows up spewing their ignorant view all over the place.

MoparFreak69 wrote: I like my vw and got it because it was CHEAP to work on and SIMPLE to work on! If I wanted to spend tons of money building a car, it would be my 1968 Dodge Dart, not a $350 Beetle.
News flash: VWs are no cheaper to own than any other antique car. Those days, sadly, have passed.
MoparFreak69 wrote: VWs are a simple mechanical machine no matter what way you slice it. You can cry and complain for the rest of your life that I am wrong, but in the end who really is right?
No one disputes that VWs are mechanically simple. But what you seem to fail to grasp is that they have a very narrow tolerance for deviation from design. Example: If someone hadn't stopped you, you'd have run your doghouse fan shroud without the doghouse cooler tin installed. And every time you ran your engine, the engine's cooling air intake would've been preheated by the hot air from the oil cooler. This would contribute to your 'VWs run hot' misconception, and your engine would have a reduced lifespan. Just because you left off a few bucks worth of tin. Because you were too big a know-it-all blowhard to do your homework. I'm willing to bet that when you rebuilt this motor (and reinstalled the doghouse shroud) you were going to reuse the sp fan you already have. You probably didn't know that the two fans aren't interchangeable. Because you were too big a know-it-all blowhard to do your homework.
MoparFreak69 wrote: YES, there are some things that are a bit "different" on a VW that doesnt apply to a lot of other cars. Are any of them a matter of life or death?
As far as your engine's concerned, yes.
MoparFreak69 wrote: Hmm lets see, a torsion bar suspension, where have I seen that before, lets see maybe a Bradley tank? Yep, worked on those.
I hope for the sake of our uniformed servicemen that you worked on them better than you do flathead Fords and better than you INTEND to work on VWs.

MoparFreak69 wrote: If you want to race one, you build it precise, If you want to drive one, you build it like you want and drive the damn thing!
Okay, build it like you want. But don't come crying to us when it dies prematurely, after never performing near its potential. We warned you repeatedly.

MoparFreak69 wrote: Bitching and whining about my choices and ideas does nothing for anybody.
Sure it does. Maybe we can stop you from doing something dumb. Or at the very least, when the next guy comes along, he can see the results of your decisions...
MoparFreak69 wrote: I'm not trying to come over as an ass, but this attitude im getting from the majority of the members here, pretty much all of whom im almost 100% certain are either at or above retirement age, is absolutely rediculous.
Hmmm...If a majority of people who have long experience seem to think you're doing something wrong........maybe you're doing something wrong. Just a thought.
MoparFreak69 wrote: What happened to spread the love? Not keep the love within a small group of people who have been wrenching on these things for 40 years and dont want to accept that somebody else may know a thing or two about the subject that they are "experts" on.

You've shown us that you know nothing about the subject. Having a grasp of 4-cycle engine theory does not equate to specific knowledge about a particular engine or class of engine. By your bragging, you've already shown us your lack of knowledge about another type of engine, so what hope should we hold out that you'll do it right when it comes to air-cooled VW engines?
You came to this forum to gain knowledge. You've come to the right place. The best thing you can do for yourself is absorb as much information as possible, and keep your preconceived opinions to yourself; nobody's listening. For what it's worth, most of our opinions here come not from a book we read or a friend we had who told us something. They come from long experience. We've seen firsthand the results of a particular action. As for myself, I've done every stupid-ass goober new-guy stunt you can think of. And watched what happened. So if I tell you, for instance' "Hey, new guy, be sure you have this, this, and this installed on your cooling system", that's not because the manual told me to. It's because I did the same dumbass thing you're thinking about doing, and watched my motor cook. We may seem brusque here, but bear in mind that a person's tone is hard to gauge in the printed word, and we're just trying to stop you from travelling a road we've already been down...

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:11 am

just my .02 here
Since I've joined up on this forum I've had nothing but nice people answering my questions and helping me along. BUT then again I am a Newbie to VW and know NOTHING about them, So I take the advice and information that is needed (usually using the search and browsing forums) and get back to the beetle. :)

Yes I do have my opinions on things, but I generally keep them to myself, I know better... LMAO

Anywho... I trust anyone on here thats been working on these cars for umpteen years and know what they are talking about. I'm appreciative of their advice and knowledge... So thank you guys!

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:12 am

I never once said I know EVERYTHING about Vws. There is a bit here and a bit there that are specific to VW and those are the kind of questions I have been asking on here more or less.
I am not building a daily driver. I am building a car to go take a ride in once in a blue moon when the mood strikes me.

Building a classic car can and will run MUCH more than it would cost to build any VW. You are drunk or high if you think otherwise. When was the last time you spent $10K on just an Engine? The Hemi I need for my dart runs at least that. The tranny to handle that power? We are talking another $4-5K. That is just the engine and trans.

I watch those car auctions on tv all the time. I saw a pristine very early convertible bug (can't recall the vintage) that was all original and in imaculate shape sell for $35K. The same guy had a similar bug that wasnt original but had been restored to original which sold for about $20K. Hmm lets see, within the last year I saw a restored 1969 Dodge Dart (no attention paid to originality) go for $65K. Those are close right? Or how about the Dusenburg that was hidden in a garage for 50+ years that sold for almost $5Million.

I do want to thank those of you who have been decent to me and replied with honest, unbiased and helpful information. There are at least a few out there that think like me!

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:22 am

Look man, I'm not trying to come off as an ass, but I drive these cars everyday, and I've owned seven of them, all of which were daily drivers. I live in the Pacific Northwest, and cover a staggering array of landscapes and climates, too. If it matters, I'm in my mid-30s--sadly, far from retiring!

I'm not going to waste bandwidth laying out my wrenching-credentials, but you can be assured I've owned a ton of various project cars and trucks--'wheelers, hot rods, classics, etc, and I worked in and around heavy equipment, Class 8s, and such for the last 20 years, as well...

Guess what that means?

Nothing!

I'm just as capable of making a foolish mistake as the next guy. Even after owning three bugs, two busses, and a squareback, I still managed to confuse a swingaxle's rubber-boot with a CV joint, still used 1/4" fuel line instead of sourcing the proper German stuff, and still considered the 009 to be the end-all in distributors. Luckily, these guys set me straight, saved me some time and a whole lot of grief.

I agree there are some members with shitty attitudes who like to make anyone with a question feel like an idiot, but they are few and far between. Mostly, these guys have are a great resource, a bank of experience, and an encouraging ear.

Best of luck on your project. Those Kadrons are a lot of fun. Still one of the best looking carbs in my opinion. Nice, simple, and clean.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:29 am

Thanks for a very well stated history Fitz of rage. You absolutely did not come off as anything but respectful and I appreciate that.

I personally disagree that all your wrenching experience means nothing in relationship to a VW but that is my opinion and you have yours, im not trying to sway you, you aren't trying to sway me.

Every mechanic is going to make a mistake every now and then whether they like to admit it or not. It goes with the territory. Sometimes funds/time dictate whether you used the right parts or not (ie: 1/4" fuel line instead of OG type stuff). Thats the way of life. I dont know how many bugs and busses I have seen with duct tape and bailing twine holding something or other on, been like that for years too. Do I agree with that method, no, but it aint my ride.

Oh and actually age group does give me a whole lotta insite about it. Had you been in the "retirement" age group, I bet your response would have been a whole lot more bitter. Thats exactly what I see from these guys, Bitterness.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:35 am

MoparFreak69 wrote: Or how about the Dusenburg that was hidden in a garage for 50+ years that sold for almost $5Million.

I do want to thank those of you who have been decent to me and replied with honest, unbiased and helpful information. There are at least a few out there that think like me!

Wasn't that the Duesenberg model X that Jay Leno bought? One of like three known to still exist? Talk about a barn find!

Deusys don't really compare to VWs, in all honesty - even the most-produced J-chassis cars were vastly outnumbered by the rarest production VWs, with the possible exception of the Hebmuller convertibles. Even then, the Duesenberg name commands a premium far exceeding any other marque, save a very few. Not trying to argue; just emphasizing the apples-oranges argument.

In my eyes, nothing really compares to ACVWs! Cheap (or they were, anyway...), fun, reliable, well-made, and very charismatic! Not too often you see that set of characteristics embodied in one entity.

Check your PMs, by the way. :p

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:39 am

MoparFreak69 wrote: I am building a car to go take a ride in once in a blue moon when the mood strikes me.
Oh, so that's your excuse for building it poorly. Okay.
MoparFreak69 wrote: Building a classic car can and will run MUCH more than it would cost to build any VW. You are drunk or high if you think otherwise. When was the last time you spent $10K on just an Engine? The Hemi I need for my dart runs at least that. The tranny to handle that power? We are talking another $4-5K. That is just the engine and trans.
One can easily spend just as much on a VW resto/resto-custom as on an American car. Just ask Rich's50. Or Lenny Copp. Or Jesse James (Yes, that Jesse James.) He's a member here:

You think because you can buy ghetto parts at dirt cheap prices and slap 'em together, you've got a restoration? Keep dreaming.
MoparFreak69 wrote: I watch those car auctions on tv all the time. I saw a pristine very early convertible bug (can't recall the vintage) that was all original and in imaculate shape sell for $35K. The same guy had a similar bug that wasnt original but had been restored to original which sold for about $20K. Hmm lets see, within the last year I saw a restored 1969 Dodge Dart (no attention paid to originality) go for $65K. Those are close right? Or how about the Dusenburg that was hidden in a garage for 50+ years that sold for almost $5Million.
If you think that a car's auction value has anything at all to do with its restoration cost, you're more deluded than I thought. The easiest way I can think of to lose money is to build a car with an eye toward selling it for a profit.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:41 am

Alister wrote: Deusys don't really compare to VWs, in all honesty - even the most-produced J-chassis cars were vastly outnumbered by the rarest production VWs, with the possible exception of the Hebmuller convertibles. Even then, the Duesenberg name commands a premium far exceeding any other marque, save a very few. Not trying to argue; just emphasizing the apples-oranges argument.

In my eyes, nothing really compares to ACVWs! Cheap (or they were, anyway...), fun, reliable, well-made, and very charismatic! Not too often you see that set of characteristics embodied in one entity.

Agreed, there is nothing like the cool combination that the beetle has. There is a reason they sold so many for so long and they are still coveted. I am in no way discounting what the beetle/bus has accomplished or stating anything contrary to that fact. It is simple, it worked (great!) and was cost effective. THAT is the draw of the VW to me at least. Not knowing every bloody detail about every simple thing about them so that you know if you ever need it you can look here or here, but not there, for the part you need. That isnt fun, that is work. Fun to me is spending the day or weekend doing something to your car that YOU appreciate.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:43 am

Yellowbeard wrote:
If you think that a car's auction value has anything at all to do with its restoration cost, you're more deluded than I thought. The easiest way I can think of to lose money is to build a car with an eye toward selling it for a profit.

Well, considering auctions are very indicitave of who wants to buy what and how much they are willing to give for it, I would say auction values are very reliable ways to value a car. if nobody wants it, regardless of make/model/etc, it wont sell at auction or anywhere else.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:48 am

Yellowbeard wrote:
One can easily spend just as much on a VW resto/resto-custom as on an American car. Just ask Rich's50. Or Lenny Copp. Or Jesse James (Yes, that Jesse James.)

Oh so I guess I better bow down because Jesse James (yeah I know who he is) is a member here huh and that makes everything everybody says is correct? No disrepect to Jesse (I am a big fan of him) or anybody else who has spent big money on their dubs but I dont see it. I dont see it for any car really but if you got the dough laying around, to each his own.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 11:54 am

MoparFreak69 wrote: Agreed, there is nothing like the cool combination that the beetle has. There is a reason they sold so many for so long and they are still coveted. I am in no way discounting what the beetle/bus has accomplished or stating anything contrary to that fact. It is simple, it worked (great!) and was cost effective. THAT is the draw of the VW to me at least. Not knowing every bloody detail about every simple thing about them so that you know if you ever need it you can look here or here, but not there, for the part you need. That isnt fun, that is work. Fun to me is spending the day or weekend doing something to your car that YOU appreciate.

Yes, indeed! And the reason why us V-dubbers tend to be a close-knit group. Outsiders just don't understand. Or maybe it's the non-mechanically inclined folks who don't? Dunno. Either you get it or you don't.

I don't know... I take some pride in knowing every detail of my cars, and who has the best for 'em, and if it's better to make my own or modify for better quality, performance, or what-have-you. I'm kind of anal like that, though. :wink: