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Wed Nov 04, 2009 7:22 pm

Front passenger side brakes on a 69 beetle. Brakes were completely redone all around many months ago with the front passenger side being the only issue.

The problem was that evey time I adjusted the bottom and top shoe then pressed the brake pedal, the bottom shoe would need to be adjsuted again because it was scraping considerably. This went on till the bottom shoe adjuster was almost bottomed out and it was left that way.

Today i had to replace a tire on the front passenger side and notice that the drum was dragging quite a bit so it was time to readjust. Now the problem persists the opposite way in that the TOP shoe now is dragging. The top adjuster has almost bottomed out and still every time I hit the brake pedal, the top shoe is dragging the drum. I have stopped because of the fear that the adjuster will just bottom out and the drum will be too difficult to remove.

I did go through two brand new calipers the first time many months ago that this occured hoping that it was a faulty caliper. That did not solve the problem.
Any suggestions.
dan

Wed Nov 04, 2009 9:24 pm

paynogan wrote: Front passenger side brakes on a 69 beetle. Brakes were completely redone all around many months ago with the front passenger side being the only issue.

The problem was that evey time I adjusted the bottom and top shoe then pressed the brake pedal, the bottom shoe would need to be adjsuted again because it was scraping considerably. This went on till the bottom shoe adjuster was almost bottomed out and it was left that way.

Today i had to replace a tire on the front passenger side and notice that the drum was dragging quite a bit so it was time to readjust. Now the problem persists the opposite way in that the TOP shoe now is dragging. The top adjuster has almost bottomed out and still every time I hit the brake pedal, the top shoe is dragging the drum. I have stopped because of the fear that the adjuster will just bottom out and the drum will be too difficult to remove.

I did go through two brand new calipers the first time many months ago that this occured hoping that it was a faulty caliper. That did not solve the problem.
Any suggestions.
dan

Calipers?

Shoes? Adjusters?

Sounds like you have drum brakes not discs which would use 'calipers and pads and rotors"...no shoes and adjusting stars.

Quite possible you have an inner wheel bearing mis match. There are different spindles out there that use a different inner wheel bearing ID ( inside diameter of the bearing) that fits on the spindle.

If you do have drum brakes you could have a stock spindle from a 66- 68 1/2 year model which takes a smaller ID diameter inner wheel bearing but your drum has the later ID wheel bearing. This could and would cause your symptom. Or you just might have wheel bearings on that side not adjusted correctly.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:24 am

I do have drum brakes, sorry about the caliper I used the wrong word.

It is not the bearing causing the dragging but the cylinder pushing both shoes out and the top shoe does not come back properly causing the shoes, after several adjustments, to be uneven. each time i hit the brake pedal the upper shoe stays pressed against the drum and the adjusting star must be backed off. the lower shoe adjusting star must also be extended to allow the lower shoe to scrape the drum.

After many adjustments the star for the top shoe is almost bottomed out and the star for the bottom shoe is almost fully extended.

After thinking last night, I am wondering if the springs are just not strong enough tp pull both shoes in and should be replaced.

When I checked this morning I did notice that the brake shoe pressure had backed off significantly so the tire would rotate with very little scrapping. However, when I hit the brake pedal the top shoe once again was pressing on the drum.

dan

Thu Nov 05, 2009 8:58 am

The wheel cyl. may need replaced, or maybe you have a slightly bent backing plate.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:02 am

Or your rubber brake flex hose may be collapsing and not allowing the fluid to escape back to the master cylinder.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:14 am

I went through two new cylinders when the brakes were redone because the same problem existed then. The difference then was that the lower shoe was not springing back all the way and now it is the upper shoe.

Did not think about the backing plate being bent but one of the suggestions the first time was to file the edge of the shoe so it was flat, then clean and lube the backing plate. This seemed to help but now 1800 miles later I dont know how long the shoe has been dragging. Oops.

The dragging doesnt seem to be causing any pull to that side so the shoe must be releasing enough while driving to not cause a serious issue.

Frustration!

[/u]

Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:45 am

Frustration is right. ](*,)

I had a similar issue after reinstalling backing plates that I had powdercoated. After a lot of investigating we found that the backing plate was warped. It was not easy to spot.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 10:55 am

I'm struggling with a similar issue on mine. Extremely frustrating. You may want to check to see how hot your drum is getting. It doesn't take a whole lot of brake dragging to make that drum smoking hot after a few miles.
Keifernet: Can you please elaborate a little more on how mismatched bearings can cause these symtoms.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:08 am

Paul Windisch wrote: Or your rubber brake flex hose may be collapsing and not allowing the fluid to escape back to the master cylinder.

That's my next "guess" from this side of the keyboard. :lol:

Have you changed the rubber flex lines ever?

It was hard to tell from your first post exactly what was happening and I read it as the shoes were catching the drum the other way, not that they were not "returning"

Another thing to check would be the angled slots in the adjusting stars to make sure they are correct.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:14 am

missionaviator wrote: I'm struggling with a similar issue on mine. Extremely frustrating. You may want to check to see how hot your drum is getting. It doesn't take a whole lot of brake dragging to make that drum smoking hot after a few miles.
Keifernet: Can you please elaborate a little more on how mismatched bearings can cause these symtoms.

John,

At some point in time a spindle ( or spindles) on a ball joint front end can be changed/swapped. There are spindles from 66- 68 1/2 and there are 68 1/2 and later. The earlier have a smaller spindle that the bearing has a smaller ID to fit.
When a later bearing or bearings "already in the drum" are swapped over by some one not aware of this the larger ( later bearing) on an earlier spindle will cause the drum to have movement that should not be there. It has various symptoms after that of wearing brake shoes funny, binding when turning etc.

Some less attentive drivers are oblivious and don't realize anything is wrong until S**T burns up or fails.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:59 am

The brake hoses were replaced last December and are not kinked but I agree that there may be an obstruction.

The drums were not hot when this was discovered because the car had been sitting since the morning.

I may have to start a new post on how to inspect a backing plate for warpage. It looks normal, however "I am not a smart man, but I know what love is...Jenny"

Took the drum off Thursday evening and noticed that the lower piston in the cylinder is so far in that it is squeezing the rubber boot and the top piston is so far out that it is stretching the rubber boot. I am not able to move them at all with the shoes in place so out it comes.

Bought a new cylinder and spring just in case so I will keep you posted.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:03 pm

Replaced the cylinder and all is well now.

I had used Oriely cylinders for all four brakes and can only hope that the others dont fail. The problematic one was replaced with a german part from a local bug shop and I will continue to use these as needed.

For new beetle owners, it was a great feeling to look at replacing, for the second time one year later, a brake cylinder and bleeding the brakes as a simple task and knocking it out relatively quickly. Even putting the drum back on and making sure the bearings were adjusted properly was a snap.

I think the bugs name has officially become Jenny. Thanx Forest.

Thank you for the help guys.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:14 pm

paynogan wrote: Replaced the cylinder and all is well now.

I had used Oriely cylinders for all four brakes and can only hope that the others dont fail. The problematic one was replaced with a german part from a local bug shop and I will continue to use these as needed.

For new beetle owners, it was a great feeling to look at replacing, for the second time one year later, a brake cylinder and bleeding the brakes as a simple task and knocking it out relatively quickly. Even putting the drum back on and making sure the bearings were adjusted properly was a snap.

I think the bugs name has officially become Jenny. Thanx Forest.

Thank you for the help guys.

Glad you got it... Just remember ALL the info you can provide in background in the first post can be a big help in getting to a solution faster.

Jenny... call me 867 530 nieeeeeineeeee! LOL

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:10 pm

keifernet
Dont know what you mean by provide in background in first post.
I havent even yet figured out how to bring another quote from a post like you did with mine and place it in a response.

Help.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:15 pm

Quote: Dont know what you mean by provide in background in first post.
I havent even yet figured out how to bring another quote from a post like you did with mine and place it in a response.

lets see if this works

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:18 pm

paynogan wrote: Quote: Dont know what you mean by provide in background in first post.
I havent even yet figured out how to bring another quote from a post like you did with mine and place it in a response.

lets see if this works

Success!

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:21 pm

Yes but how do you ad your own response below the quote?
and what does provide info in background mean?

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:33 pm

paynogan wrote: Yes but how do you ad your own response below the quote?
and what does provide info in background mean?

After you quote, then just start typing underneath. If I can do it, anyone can!