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Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:56 am

Here's a pic from the Adrian Flux Insurance Company advert in the Volksworld Mag(UK)
It has the later high level indicators and early blade/step type bumper.
Was there such a model manufactured, or is it a home made hybrid?
The reason I ask, is that I have seen a similar model for sale, but am reluctant to commit to buying it until I know what I'm getting.
Thanks
Taffy
http://images.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/615827.jpg

Thu Nov 05, 2009 11:59 am

Likely a 72 with a later nose skin as 68-72 skins aren't available.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:37 pm

I've seen models referred to as t2a/b or sometimes t2 zwitters on Ebay.de a few times. I can't say for sure if they are legit but I've seen it enough to believe that there are a few factory transition models with the high indicators and blade bumpers. I don't know whether the engine intake vents on these (if they in fact exist) would be later-style or crescent-shaped. Hopefully someone else has more info...

Andre

Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:24 pm

the T2a/b zwitter ( 1972) has late rear lights and air vents, complete early front with low indicators and early bumpers front and rear.

there's been lots of discussion about "floor sweepings" factory built vans with late( edit: i did of course mean early) bumpers and high indicators but as far as i know there's no definate factual evidence from VW or any employees from that time to authenticate.

comparing the chassis number of such a bus bus with other 72's could give some reference point, but i'd say the flux ad bus has had a new brasilian front fitted.

Thu Nov 05, 2009 2:38 pm

In that picture, the vents looks square in the rear. Also notice the lack of front vent windows and middle solid glass indicating its most likely a Euro version (if all that is stock).

Thu Nov 05, 2009 4:17 pm

Kirk wrote: In that picture, the vents looks square in the rear. Also notice the lack of front vent windows and middle solid glass indicating its most likely a Euro version (if all that is stock).

no vent windows is i think typical for rhd UK vans but i've only ever seen one swiss bus with fixed glass and it had been delivered new to the united nations! :?

Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:07 pm

That bus looks like the Bazilean Versions being converted and sold in the U.K. by Danbury Motorcaravans to me, here's a linkt to their website http://www.danburymotorcaravans.com/

Thu Nov 05, 2009 6:13 pm

That bus looks like the Bazilean Versions being converted and sold in the U.K. by Danbury Motorcaravans to me, here's a linkt to their website http://www.danburymotorcaravans.com/

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:51 am

No I reckon that's a crossover. I know someone in the area who had one recently, dove blue with late front indicators, back lights and air vents but early bumpers. The attached pic doesn't seem to have the pressings round the bottom of the doors as per the new Brazilian bays, or the wierd roof profile.

Taffy - send me a pic of the ad if you like, am probably somewhere near you!

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:26 pm

I still say it looks a lot like the pre-water cooled ones that were converted by Danbury, although the roofline doesn't look correct, and it does have vent windows although blacked out slightly in the pic, pictures can easily be doctored these days, have a look at their customer pictures section, they have the same rims, pop top and roof racks on some of them, anyway it looks sharp whatever it is. 8)

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:14 pm

I have yet to see an actual proven example of these so called "crossovers" you Brits always talk about. Maybe they were only shipped there, or maybe you bash up the noses more because of driving through roundabouts on the wrong side of the road and the nose skins got changed early in the busses life :P

I've seen lots of early busses (including late 72's) with late noses but every single one had the nose skin replaced once upon a time.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:20 pm

busdaddy wrote:

I've seen lots of early busses (including late 72's) with late noses but every single one had the nose skin replaced once upon a time.

X2
I say '72 with replaced nose skin (brazilian body repair section).

Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:26 pm

busdaddy wrote: I have yet to see an actual proven example of these so called "crossovers" you Brits always talk about. Maybe they were only shipped there, or maybe you bash up the noses more because of driving through roundabouts on the wrong side of the road and the nose skins got changed early in the busses life :P

I've seen lots of early busses (including late 72's) with late noses but every single one had the nose skin replaced once upon a time.

No idea. This is the bus I was talking about, I can vouch for the fact that the front panel is original 8)

Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:02 pm

Oh well, now I am truly confused. I haven't seen anything quite like that before. Someone save me from the next 4 weeks of searching that this will create... :shock:

Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:25 pm

There have only ever been the T2a with low indicators, then T2a/b 1972 'one year wonder' - again with low indicators through to 72, the model year 73> T2b with deformation panel and later style bumpers plus high indicators, and lastly South American 'T2c' (of which the roof is a lot higher than the one in the ad, and the Brazilian versions utilised their old Fleetline toolings for a 'cut down' i.e. no side step front bumper but still old style rear bumper). Although the higher roof seen on the Type 2 manufactured today originated in Mexico, I think the Mexican buses had the later style bumpers

In the ad, the campervan looks like a mid 70's Devon camper conversion (note the ultra rear Devon only side step), late Devon roof, smaller VW badge, high indicators - but the earlier bumper - see below re VW Heritage in the UK).

No way is it Brazilian, as whether RHD or LHD, the sliding door would be on the other side of the Bus. Beetles UK/ Danbury do the RHD conversion on the steering, and the Brazilians to my knowledge dont make a double sliding door model.
Dont know what people mean mean by the roof looking weird, it looks normal to me, maybe just an optical illusion due to the lowered wheels and no license plate).

If you go to VW Heritage in the UK here:

http://www.vwheritage.com/vwh/VW-Camper-Van-Parts/Bus-Parts-1968-79/Body/Bumpers/?templateID=vwh

It says:

"If you want an older style bumper for you 1973 onwards bus you can fit these retro style bumper irons easily. They are standard equipment on the modern VW Brazil Kombis and will bolt straight onto the rear of your bus

The front bumpers have bolt holes above and below the centre line of the bumper. Europa style bumpers have the mounting holes along the centre line.

No problems for owners of vans with new defomation panels fitted because they all come with above and below holes. If you van still has it's original deformation panel, you will need to weld in new captive nuts in the correct postion to suit these bumpers"

Note the centre line of fixings on the Bus you are thinking of buying, that indicates it has the original late bay deformation panel and they have hacked an earlier bumper - I think? - which if true is good news as the deformation panel is probably original, it may indicate that there has just been a bumper change at some point, and a previous owner opted to do a DIY version of what was said by VW Heritage above with an old bumper for that 'retro' look.

Also, if it had had a Brazilian front end, the tell tale sign is the raised cut out in the centre for the new style VW badge, unless it has been shaved off.

To end, the 1972 T2a/b which maintained for one year the low front indicators and old style bumper on the front is the only inbetweenie/zwitter bus. There were some miniscule changes to doors etc throughout the 70's, but nothing as radical as old style bumpers with high indicators. Please correct me if my musings are crap.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:42 pm

I thought early bay bumpers had mounting holes straight across ... just the new brazilian ones that had the mounts in the new style? Looking at a few pics of early bays on volkszone seems to confirm this ... have seen a few buses with very odd part combinations ... I think there was definitely a "factory sweeping" approach at least for a few months between t2a and b ...

Fri Nov 06, 2009 10:28 pm

barryben wrote: busdaddy wrote: I have yet to see an actual proven example of these so called "crossovers" you Brits always talk about. Maybe they were only shipped there, or maybe you bash up the noses more because of driving through roundabouts on the wrong side of the road and the nose skins got changed early in the busses life :P

I've seen lots of early busses (including late 72's) with late noses but every single one had the nose skin replaced once upon a time.

No idea. This is the bus I was talking about, I can vouch for the fact that the front panel is original 8)

Maybe it is, but I'm not convinced about the bumper, let's see the rest of the bus, things like the fuse box, signal switches, rear cargo area, VIN, door sticker, etc....... And the lower nose seam sure looks hillbilly to me, break out the macro camera, I'm still a skeptic.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 12:53 pm

The front panel itself may very well be original, but there's always someone trying to hack/mount an early bay bumper onto a 73-up bay. My bet is that's the case here, especially since it looks a bit lop-sided.

IMO there has to be a way to modify/fabricate the early bay bumper mounts so that it looks more-or-less 'not-OG-but-alright' when mounted in front of the late bay front end & reinforcement member, at least from a casual observation by most non-stock nazis. (seems like it could be an interesting challenge) My vote is that this guy got close, say 80-85% of 'passable'.

Hey, it could have been worse... p.o. could have painted it to try & make it appear like a splitty! Ugh. Or just as fugly: a VW-ish mod kit on a Suzuki micro-van. (Those always kinda remind me of the outcome/offspring of when my 200Lb St.Bernard mated with a neighbor's female Basset that wandered into our yard... all the markings were there, but the... uhhh, proportions were quite a bit off!)

Sat Nov 07, 2009 6:10 pm

WestyPop wrote: The front panel itself may very well be original, but there's always someone trying to hack/mount an early bay bumper onto a 73-up bay. My bet is that's the case here, especially since it looks a bit lop-sided.

IMO there has to be a way to modify/fabricate the early bay bumper mounts so that it looks more-or-less 'not-OG-but-alright' when mounted in front of the late bay front end & reinforcement member, at least from a casual observation by most non-stock nazis. (seems like it could be an interesting challenge) My vote is that this guy got close, say 80-85% of 'passable'.

Hey, it could have been worse... p.o. could have painted it to try & make it appear like a splitty! Ugh. Or just as fugly: a VW-ish mod kit on a Suzuki micro-van. (Those always kinda remind me of the outcome/offspring of when my 200Lb St.Bernard mated with a neighbor's female Basset that wandered into our yard... all the markings were there, but the... uhhh, proportions were quite a bit off!)

:lol: I love it. This is one of the benefits of this forum, poetic humor at the click of a key. :)

Sun Nov 08, 2009 2:20 am

chimneyfish wrote:

Also, if it had had a Brazilian front end, the tell tale sign is the raised cut out in the centre for the new style VW badge, unless it has been shaved off.

I think I can see the raised centre for the new style badge on that orange bus nose... :? That's why I said '72 with brazilian nose skin.