TheSamba.com :: View topic - 73 1700cc bus. Another question?? Please help.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:44 pm

OK my bus was in dry storage for about 7 yrs. I recently drained bad gas, replaced fuel lines, changed points and condenser and got the old bus running. The thing now is it won't shift into drive. If the bus isn't running I can put the clutch in and shift through all the gears smoothly. And if I shift it in to neutral I can start the bus right up and the motor sounds good but then when I try to shift into gear it wont go. I haven't wanted to force it because the gears are grinding. Once I tried to put it in reverce and it did jump into gear but the engine stalled from the sudden jump. I have tightened up on the clutch cable wing nut hoping this would help but hasn't made a difference. This is a clutch issue right? :? My guess is it is stuck. Has anyone had this problem before and got any good ideas as to what to do?? Thanks I'm not apposed to pulling the motor if need be but I was hoping to get the bus in my garage first. As it is right now the bus is sitting where she rolled of the trailer. And it is an up hill push to my garage. :(

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:48 pm

Could be that the clutch plate is rusted to the flywheel from sitting.

I would pull it out and fix it. Be sure to machine the flywheel also.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:54 pm

If it is a stuck disc you can also try just sticking it in first gear with a clear path and starting it in gear... run it down the drive or street in first letting on and off the gas hard on and off a few times. This can un free a stuck disc to the flywheel.

If in doubt or money and time is not an issue then pull it and see what you have or need to change.

Many of us over the years have moved or bought vehicles that sat for years ( non VW's alike) and had to do this and they were fine afterwords... as long as there are no other issues/reason they were parked was the clutch!

Fri Nov 06, 2009 2:58 pm

Have you checked the cable to be sure it hasn't been damaged and that it is still moving the release arm on the bell housing?

The disk may have glued / rusted itself to the flywheel if you live in a humid climate...

Or the input shaft is frozen into the pilot bearing. With the engine off, you can try putting it into 1st or 4th gear, pushing the clutch in and having a couple of friends GENTLY try to move it forwards and backwards. 4th will let the friends feel the resistance better. Even is the clutch comes free it may not be a long term solution. However IF the pilot bearing is frozen to the input shaft you will have a very hard time getting the transmission and engine apart so you need to make sure the engine and trans can be disengaged from one another.

Please check oil levels in the engine and trans.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:04 pm

I had no clutch issues before bus was parked. In fact i believe if my memory serves me that when we pulled the motor 10 yrs ago for cleaning and tlc etc. we put a new clutch plate in... I don't really have a good yard for trying to jump start a bus. Bus is facing up hill too... So I think I may pull the motor and free it up. I guess it is my safest option. I was hoping not to have to do this in the yard though. May get the comealong out and pull her up in the garage first. She is rolling really hard though.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:14 pm

Not suggesting you "jump start it". The gear syncro rings aren't strong enough to break the clutch free but the trans should be. Suggesting you see if you can roll it 6" to a foot in 4th with the clutch pushed down to see if the clutch or pilot bearing will come free. As it stands, You may not get the engine off the trans without serious damage to the trans if the pilot bearing or clutch disk hub are rusted frozen to the input shaft. You need to get a few miles on it to loosen up the pilot bearing and disk hub on the input splines if they are rusted before you pull it. Do you have room to let it roll back 6 inches to a foot to see if it will break loose? Make sure your E-brake works in case the brakes don't.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:18 pm

Transmission and engine oil are up to snuff. I replaced the clutch cable 10 years ago and it seems to be functioning correctly.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:20 pm

Yeah I can roll it backwards. I should try this in 4th gear?

Fri Nov 06, 2009 3:29 pm

put it in 4th gear, push in the clutch and see if it will roll a foot or so. If that works then stop, put it in 1st and try again. If it rolls in 4th but not 1st then the engine is turning over in 4th that is all. You are trying to see if the clutch and pilot bearing will come free. The grease may just be hardened around the bearing, that is all. If it comes free then stop and try starting it in 1st gear with the clutch pushed down. If it starts then see if you can drive it in 1st, try 2nd etc and it may be Ok. Just don't shift fast at first, be gentle and take your time. Report back what happens.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:51 pm

OK I will try this and let you know. Thanks

Fri Nov 06, 2009 5:12 pm

Alright so I just put the bus in 4th, 1st, reverse with the clutch in and the bus wont budge. Its pitch black out though and I was doing all this my self. I will get someone to help tomorrow and try again. A better push might make a difference? [-o<

Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:31 pm

It is surprising how little it takes to stick a clutch plate to the flywheel. I have seen this before on cars that have been laid up for a few years. If you take them apart the clutch comes right off. Wipe it off put it back together and it works perfectly.

It is possible to fix without taking anything apart if there is a way to get at the clutch. But I don't think this is possible on a VW because there is no way to get at the clutch without taking out the motor. So unfortunately if it won't come loose the engine has to come out.

Squirting brake kleen spray into the clutch will sometimes free them up but again, I don't think you can get at a VW clutch to do this.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:10 pm

remove the starter and in through that hole? Perhaps brake cleaner with an extension pipe on it....?

M

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:32 pm

Have you tried just starting it in gear? Put it in 4th (or any gear for that matter), push in the clutch and hit the starter. If it isn't stuck too bad this should do it for you. If this doesn't work I would get someone with a 4x4 to pull you up onto a level section of road, and then start it in gear and put it under load with the clutch depressed.

Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:51 pm

I tried starting it in 1st gear bus would jump forward a bit and stall. I might try and turn the bus around though. This would point me down hill. My concern is if the bus starts and it doesn't come free and I'm headed out of the yard? I guess Id just have to turn the engine off? if that happened to stop it....As far as removing the starter I don't know. Its not a bad thought though. I wonder what type of access that would give me.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 1:42 pm

Alright I was able to start the bus in reverse and back down my drive 50' to more level ground. Now I'm just waiting for some help to get a push going forward and she should start in first and I can drive into the garage.

It does seem that the clutch isn't going to just break free on its own though. When I pull the engine to remedy this how tough is it going to be to break the clutch free of the flywheel?? Am I going to damage anything?

Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:37 pm

Does your clutch pedal feel normal? Have you tried putting the engine under full load in gear while the clutch pedal is depressed? If you can't get it to break free in first go ahead and shift it into a higher gear and then hit the gas while the clutch pedal is depressed. I have never seen one not break lose yet if it is just rust holding it, a seized pilot bearing would be another matter.

Sat Nov 07, 2009 10:56 pm

Please stay away from doing any of this in reverse, 2nd or 3rd. Use 1st and 4th only, they are the strongest gears.

If you have been pushing in the clutch the whole time and nothing has broken free, that is one stuck clutch. I would 100% make sure that you watch the clutch pivot arm with a flashlight while someone else presses on the clutch to see that it moves a normal amount when the pedal is pressed down, and returns when you let up.

Sun Nov 08, 2009 6:54 am

clutch pedal does seem normal and is adjusted per the Bentley book. I will climb under and watch the pivot arm and see what it is doing though. Thanks for the gear advice. My plan today is to start the bus in 1st and drive it into the garage for a major over haul. I was going to pull the motor, and camper interior to do the body work anyways... I guess after storing my bus for as long as I did I should have expected these issues. I was hoping for turn key!! haha Anyways thanks everyone for all the help. :D Im am glad to have found this web sight. Ten yrs ago when I was wrenching and driving my bus I could bounce anything off my dad. He had yrs of experience with VWs. Now he is gone to the big bus parade in the sky!!
So when I do pull the motor should I expect to have trouble if the clutch is this stuck??

Sun Nov 08, 2009 8:13 am

So the pivot arm on the bell housing is working or at least moving forward when clutch is depressed. Anyways I just got the bus in the garage. Tied a tire to the front of my truck and with a push I was able to get it started in first and drive up and in the garage!! Now the restoration can begin. Still wondering what I will encounter with the clutch when I pull the motor??