TheSamba.com :: View topic - Engine strip down -- what to inspect / replace?

Mon Nov 09, 2009 11:48 am

I'm going to use the winter months to pull my engine, strip it down to the longblock and after a lot of cleanup on the tin (powder coat? Maybe) put it back together again before hitting the show circuit again next year. While the compartment looks ok now, there are several items that I know need attention. Here it is presently:

If I have the engine out and stripped to the longblock, what are some of the preventive measures I could take? Re-torque head bolts? Good idea? bad idea? Replacing the Oil cooler with an OEM as long as I'm that far in? Swivel-foot adjusters?

The engine runs well right now and other than one cylinder not firing when bone cold (problem goes away in about 2 minutes after start) I don't have any complaints. But I'm doing this work not for the fun, but both for cosmetic and longevity reasons. So I'm open to any suggestions that the older heads might have.

Already in the plans are an all new intake (ends and center manifold + heat risers) new muffler, new vac can for the distributor (and a rebuild for that) and a refurbished, year correct fuel pump. I'm also going to restore all of the correct throttle valve positioner parts that were removed by the PO.

Thanks in advance for any experienced suggestions...

M

Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:09 pm

First that is one clean engine compartment.
The intake ends just clean them and soft wire wheel them, the intake also.
Heck I would even clean the oil cooler out and replace seals. noting better then OG cooler.
I shined up my VAcuum can, it almost looks like chrome.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:12 pm

How about do a compression check and oil pressure test before hand? I would hate to see you do all of this work and find out you have other issues, especially with the one hole not firing when cold. It's great to see folks keeping their stuff in top shape.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:38 pm

Because this car is 80% show, 20% go, the appearance (and originality) is very high on the scale of importance. (Although it has to actually...you know..RUN.)

Anyway, the heat risers are really chewed up; rusted and pitted. I've found a good quality replacement for the center section, and by complete luck, stumbled on to a pair of end castings at a swap meet that had been bead blasted and then polished on the inside. Got them for a song.

I was able to source an NOS Bosch original vac can from Istanbul, so I'm going to replace the can outright when I rebuild the distributor (Using Glenn's published procedures.)

What type of pressure should an OEM oil cooler be able to take? What do you recommend to use to flush the coole's internals?

I had the compression and leakdown check in mind. I've got the compressor; I just need to borrow a leakdown tester to do that part.

The one hole not firing really is odd, as it ONLY happens when completely cold, and never happens any other time. (Hot start? No Problem. Warm start? No problem.)

Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:40 pm

since you'll have the motor out, it would be a goodtime to pull the clutch off and inspect it as well as take a look at the rear main seal

Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:42 pm

Is there any reason to inspect the flywheel seal if I'm not losing oil from it? I would think disturbing it would be asking for trouble.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:50 pm

if your not losing any oil and everything is already good, Then I would see no reason to replace it

Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:53 pm

webwalker wrote: Is there any reason to inspect the flywheel seal if I'm not losing oil from it? I would think disturbing it would be asking for trouble.

Because Murphy says that the second time you start your engine after you reinstall it the seal will start dumping oil out of it at a rate that would make you believe they grounded the Exxon Valdez in your driveway. Also replace that starter bushing if you don't know how old it is. Very cheap and easy with the motor out. Huge pain to replace with the engine in the car.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 12:55 pm

Starter bushing ($1.19.) Check. :lol:

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:51 pm

(Disclaimer: Limited experience: Owned a 1972 Super for 3 years. So far haven't screwed it up, including replacing brakes and removing, rebuilding, and re-installing motor. It runs, but haven't driven it yet.)

webwalker wrote: Re-torque head bolts?
I would. Particularly since you're having cylinder firing issues.

Quote: So I'm open to any suggestions that the older heads might have.

Before taking it out, do an oil pressure check. If it's not up to spec (30 wt oil, oil at 70 deg C, 2500 rpm, 40psi new, 28 psi wear limit) then now's a good time to replace the oil pump.

Quote: Already in the plans are an all new intake (ends and center manifold + heat risers) new muffler,

I replaced muffler and intake on my dual-port. Let me tell you, it's a bitch getting that stuff to fit together. I know you say that your risers are pitted, but what i can see in your photos are the cleanest nicest heat risers I've ever seen. I'd think long and hard before getting rid of the originals that actually fit.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 5:58 pm

webwalker wrote: Anyway, the heat risers are really chewed up; rusted and pitted.

I'll get some photos of mine, and then you'll know what rusted and pitted looks like, and you'll put your old ones back in. :-)

Quote: I've found a good quality replacement for the center section
Really? Where? I bought one from Mid-America (I know, I know) that totally didn't fit at all, then I bought one from, I think, VWparts.net. The second one is the one where the heat riser parts are separate from the main body. I'm even having the devil of a time getting that to fit. The left side riser didn't really line up, so I sort of cranked it down and filled the gap with high temp sealant. i don't think it worked; I've started then engine once and I'm getting exhaust from somewhere down there; I suspect that joint failed.

Quote: I had the compression and leakdown check in mind. I've got the compressor; I just need to borrow a leakdown tester to do that part.

Yeah, do it warm and also do it cold, for comparison.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:20 pm

My source for the center section is local; a fellow who had painted them when they were new and then hardly ever ran the car. So the 'acne' that they all seem to get never showed up on his. I picked them up at the last show I was at. I'll be repainting them the correct color grey.

While mine don't look too bad (though the manifold is mostly in shadow, so it does lie) the goal is 'concourse' grade restoration. The pitting, gouges and rusting won't do for that.

The oil pressure check is also a good one. I'll add that to the list.

M

Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:56 pm

webwalker wrote:
While mine don't look too bad (though the manifold is mostly in shadow, so it does lie) the goal is 'concourse' grade restoration. The pitting, gouges and rusting won't do for that.

Well if you're going to get rid if the intake manifold that you have pictured, then I'm putting money on the barrel head. I will pay you whatever you want for it plus shipping. My heat risers are ACTUALLY rusty and pitted--whatever you have is in better condition, and unlike the TWO new manifold center sections I've purchased, yours will fit.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 8:59 pm

The first must do, is remove flywheel and check endplay. VW was known for wearing out the cases espically with high miles. Make sure the rear main bearing is not moving in the case. If things look good ,replace rear seal( Its 30 Years old) and retorque flywheel @205 lbs.Tear engine down to the rod bearings. Work on engine replacing rod bearings and top end components. rings and a honing or a piston/cyl kit. Do not go to 87 mill. because the cylinders are too thin to hold heat. Replace exhaust valves reguardless how good they look. They become brittle with time and heat and will surely dissappoint you , if you don't. Buying new heads with lead free seats installed is not a bad way to go either. Any extra outside oil cooling is always a good idea. I have been using Syn oil, and would like any feedback on others using it. I have found, if you do not split the cases and replace the cam with a nice performance one, any topend changes, yeild minimum results. Most non-stock mufflers sound and behave better. I like 4 into 1 better than split? I'm probly talking a mile a minute, but would be happy to answer any other questions you might have. Pete

Mon Nov 09, 2009 9:05 pm

I won't take your money. :wink:

But I will try to take some better pictures. Probably tomorrow, as I'm going to be forced to drive the SB to work in rush hour traffic, because my daily driver just had a nervous breakdown. (Check engine, sputter, cough, gag...almost didn't make it home.)

Someone attempted to paint the heat risers gold to look like cadmium plating instead it just looks...blech.

They also put a chrome back plate on the generator. That crap goes, too.

I took 8 years to redo the rest of the car. This winter, the engine gets all my attention. Though we'll see if there is any money left after I fix the daily driver.

Tue Nov 10, 2009 7:11 am

webwalker wrote: Is there any reason to inspect the flywheel seal if I'm not losing oil from it? I would think disturbing it would be asking for trouble.

You'd only be disturbing it to replace it. I just replaced the one on my engine, and it was only about 10 years old, leaking ever so slightly - but it was dry and kind of crumbled out of its seat. It's was easy to pull the flywheel - no biggie!

Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:26 am

webwalker wrote: My source for the center section is local; a fellow who had painted them when they were new and then hardly ever ran the car. So the 'acne' that they all seem to get never showed up on his. I picked them up at the last show I was at. I'll be repainting them the correct color grey.

On those heat risers; get 'em ceramic-coated? Most any place that does it, will have several colors to choose from, and I have seen grey:

One of the manifolds for my '63 GMC's 401M V6 (not the original engine). Might not match perfectly, but the stuff will last forever and does a wonderful job of preventing rust.

Food for thought!

Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:30 am

Pete:

Mi amigo, switch to decaf. :lol:

I'm only going down to the long block, not in to it. The engine is not original, but I have no desire to upgrade it in ways that would change its performance, appearance, or behavior. I'll be blasting my exhaust and reinstalling it because it is still very much intact and in otherwise good condition. My primary concern is 'what are things that I can check without tearing in to the case' while I have all of the externals off being refurbished.

Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:53 am

Peter Harris wrote: The first must do, is remove flywheel and check endplay. Pete

:-k

Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:59 am

Why can't endplay be checked with the FW on? I had an old B case with endplay so bad you could see the FW float foreward and backward by 1/4"!

M