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Mon Nov 09, 2009 2:51 pm

When I got my new top in 1980 for my 1971 SB Convertible, the installer said I would be needing new rubber for the rear window. Now it's 2009, and he was correct !!! See photo below, see gap; I can actually see through to the inside through the gap. Question is: is this straightforward, and do I remove the little clip in the center and the chrome strip and the window should come right out? And then do I just wrap on new rubber and do the dishwash liquid lube trick, or do I need to use string. Thanks in advance if anyone can provide instructions how to do this.

Mon Nov 09, 2009 3:31 pm

Use two people (you'll need a person outside applying pressure while you fit the lip on the inside). I did the string trick, but did it dry. Will take you a few minutes your first time, if that. Surprisingly easy. What will take more time is replacing your wood window frame insert, if need be. With that loss of the seal, you might want to be prepared for that.

Tue Nov 10, 2009 6:11 am

To remove window, I just used a knife and cut the ribber. But to answer your question, removing the clip and trim will not make the glass come out. the trim is purely cosmetic. I don't remember if I removed the trim first and then cut the rubber or vice versa. Either way take care while removing to not kink it.

Then, assuming the wood is ok and metal frame is ok, you install the rubber beading sans trim on the GLASS, then insert the glass + beading onto the metal frame. Here's where a string etc comes handy. I used a plastic clothesline lubed with soap.

Finally install the trim.

Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:03 pm

You have a 29 year old top, and even older seal.
My guess, based on my own car is as soon as you touch the rear window it
will come right out of the frame, seal and all, no cutting required.
I don't think the gap I'm seeing is the seal, but the frame has warped.
Good luck with it, but my guess is a new top, rebuilt window frame, and new seal is in your future.
The seal goes around the window, the trim gets installed in the seal,
and then the whole assembly gets installed in the frame with the help of a good, and careful friend.
Also while you have the glass out look at the edge to see if it's laminated, or tempered glass.
Laminated glass is more fragile, and required great care during installation.

Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:05 pm

Is there an easy way to tell the difference between the two types of glass?

Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:35 pm

Laminated looks like a sandwich of glass with a piece of plastic in the center, Because it is. 2 Pieces of glass with a sticky plastic sheet between to retain the glass shards and prevent explosive shattering.

Tempered will be just a single thick piece of glass.

Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:52 pm

Thanks! So don't drop the tempered glass? :wink:

Sat Nov 28, 2009 2:48 pm

I ordered the replacement rear window seal today from Wolfsburg West. June 1995 Hot VWs has a pretty good article about replacing this. My rear window rubber is rock hard, I can simply pull the whole thing out.

If I run into trouble installing it, I'll just take to a top or upholstery shop....

Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:16 pm

ach60 wrote: I don't think the gap I'm seeing is the seal, but the frame has warped.
Good luck with it, but my guess is a new top, rebuilt window frame, and new seal is in your future.

X2
Difficult to tell 100% from the pic but it looks like you have more than a seal replacement to fix it correctly. But 29 years aint' bad to get from a top

one thing I've learned about those seals is they are gone before they look gone. Which means they will leak and damage the frames. Always good to check and replace them before they dry out. But like I said 29 years is good for a top

Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:32 pm

I haVE used weed eater line to put into the rubber groove and help install the window. Also I used dish soap that had been diluted to help slip it in.

Wed Dec 09, 2009 6:37 pm

Update: I bought and received the new rear convertible window rubber from Wolfsburg West. I removed the chrome trim pieces and two clips, no issue there. I labeled the top of the window with masking tape, turned out to be good thing I did. I was able to EASILY pull the rear window assembly out just using my fingers, no prying or cutting required. Luckily, I was able to figure out the orientation of the seal onto the window glass, not so intuitive, by using the old seal as a guide.

Unfortunately, I was alone, and took like 1.5 hours for me just to get the seal onto the window itself, needed like four more hands; the Hot VWs article just stated that the seal was a good fit, not a word about that getting it onto the window was difficult. I E-mailed a local shop that does VWs to inquire about doing the rest, and got a quote of $50 as minimum shop fee. So before I travel downtown and pay $50, I will try to re-insert the chrome strips (tips, anyone????) and try to install the window assembly into the VW myself (I've never done a window before). I'll definitely use some lube on it, and thanks wbrown45, trimmer line is a good idea. I'll keep you posted, maybe in a few days...

Wed Dec 09, 2009 7:48 pm

Good luck, I'm following your post with great interest...

Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:16 pm

ach60 wrote: You have a 29 year old top, and even older seal.
My guess, based on my own car is as soon as you touch the rear window it
will come right out of the frame, seal and all, no cutting required.
I don't think the gap I'm seeing is the seal, but the frame has warped.
Good luck with it, but my guess is a new top, rebuilt window frame, and new seal is in your future.

birddog1 wrote: Difficult to tell 100% from the pic but it looks like you have more than a seal replacement to fix it correctly. But 29 years aint' bad to get from a top. one thing I've learned about those seals is they are gone before they look gone. Which means they will leak and damage the frames. Always good to check and replace them before they dry out. But like I said 29 years is good for a top

Ding, ding, ding- we have two winners.

Update: The Top Shop couldn't get the rear window bottom lip to seal, said (and showed me) that the rear wood had warped or bowed. They were hoping I could fix the wood bow, but when I removed the bottom staples it was apparent that the particle board "wood" frame was clearly separated from the metal frame (which prevented the seal from seating) and was crumbly and looked like it wouldn't hold stables very well, see photo.

So it looks like next step will be contacting Wolfsburg West for a new "wood" frame, about $90, don't know if these are available as wood frames, or just as particle board - anyone know? Then I'll likely have to pay the Top Shop guys to staple in that new one as best they can and install the window. So even in Arizona, enough rain somehow got in during the years I had it outside to warp that rear part of the particle board frame; the metal frame there actually had a little surface rust, I guess whatever rain accumulated there became trapped....

They also said that my window opening was a little low, and they were correct, as compared to a '72 convertible parked next to me. When I got this '71 in 1976, it had just gotten its second top.....in 1980 I used a top place used by the VW dealership....best I could've done....I thought...

Sat Dec 19, 2009 12:05 pm

Update:

I contacted Wolfsburg West, they told me that the guy who used to make those $90 wood rings had died, and they've not been able to find anyone to make good wood ones for them. West Coast Metric sells a polyurethane ring for the staples ($60), they say their customers are happy with it. Chuck's Convertible Parts sells a hard rubber strip for this, they use that in their installations ($50), and told me to make sure that the top to bottom measurement for the metal frame ring was less than 11.25 inches because top shrinkage can warp these (mine measured OK). http://www.oeveedub.com/vw/vert-convertible.html lists for $220 #151-898-449DE which is the metal Rear Window Ring plus wood ring, about the going price if one also needs the metal ring. I've contacted the top shop to see which type they like, and would be more comfortable with.

I've got two kids in college, not interested in replacing the entire top until they're out....that and keeping Tiger Woods away from them are a current goals.

Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:40 pm

Look at M&T Manufacturing also. The have the steel frame with wood tacking strips for 209.00. They also mention having just the tacking strips if the steel frame is good, but I don't see them itemized so maybe they have the same problem as Wolfsburg West. Might be worth a call.

Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:22 pm

Hey Cusser: I know all about your recent trials. My '71 has the top "permanently down," and luckily, I can garage it in the winter. The top was replaced in the late '80s, but they kept the original wood, headliner, and pad. Now, the "particle board" wood is flaking apart (especially the header and window frame), the pad is shedding the "coconut-horse hair" filler, and the vinyl is cracking. As if the top/pad/headliner replacement is not expensive enough, replacing ALL the wood a 71 or before can add BIG $$$ to the cost of replacing the top.

For those who have not priced it out, materials alone for a vert top (top, headliner, pad) don't seem too expensive, but the wood or synthetic materials for the bows, frame, and body cost at least $600-$700. As you dive further into the project, top-frame repainting and repairs can add costs, labor costs increases...and, why bother putting a new top on if all of the window rubber/seals are cracked...

As you see, you can open up a real can of worms...

Since my original canvas boot is brittle, I will probably put a new vinyl one on and keep the car out of wet weather, until I win the lottery or my children move on and out. :)

Living in Nor Cal has it's advantages...the sun must be brutal on the interior in AZ when you park it on a hot August day with the top down!

Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:36 pm

tailwaggers wrote: Look at M&T Manufacturing also. The have the steel frame with wood tacking strips for 209.00. They also mention having just the tacking strips if the steel frame is good, but I don't see them itemized so maybe they have the same problem as Wolfsburg West. Might be worth a call.

M&T's wood strips alone cost more than the wood plus metal !!!http://www.mtmfg.com/cgi-local/displaycat.cgi?cat=1900

Sat Dec 19, 2009 4:06 pm

Cusser wrote: tailwaggers wrote: Look at M&T Manufacturing also. The have the steel frame with wood tacking strips for 209.00. They also mention having just the tacking strips if the steel frame is good, but I don't see them itemized so maybe they have the same problem as Wolfsburg West. Might be worth a call.

M&T's wood strips alone cost more than the wood plus metal !!!http://www.mtmfg.com/cgi-local/displaycat.cgi?cat=1900

Don't screw around, you did good when you called Chuck, now just get what you need from him.

Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:18 pm

Cusser wrote: tailwaggers wrote: Look at M&T Manufacturing also. The have the steel frame with wood tacking strips for 209.00. They also mention having just the tacking strips if the steel frame is good, but I don't see them itemized so maybe they have the same problem as Wolfsburg West. Might be worth a call.

M&T's wood strips alone cost more than the wood plus metal !!!http://www.mtmfg.com/cgi-local/displaycat.cgi?cat=1900

It is confusing, but looking at their BOWPACK, they mention 6 parts: 1) HEADER BOW, 2) REAR TOP BOW, 3) INNER AND 4) OUTER QUARTER SIDE PIECES, 5) REAR BASE BOW AND 6) WOOD INSERT FOR ORIGINAL REAR WINDOW FRAME.

Only the 6th one isn't itemized separately, so it isn't clear how much that one might cost, if it actually is available by itself.