TheSamba.com :: View topic

Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:07 pm

It doesnt get very cold here. getting the engine to operating temp won't be an issue. so can i strip them....

Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:39 pm

I have heard that they also help direct the air over the cylinders so getting rid of them may not be a good idea.

Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:40 pm

Why? Are you talking about the flaps in the doghouse? Those help it warm up, btw. So if you take em out in cold weather you're doing yourself a disservice.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:34 am

the coldest it would ever get here is like mid 30's. With no heat and all I probably would wait till it warmed up some before taking it out anyway. So that leaves the part about helping to direct air flow around cylinders...can anyone verify this? (not that i dont beleive you)

Wed Nov 11, 2009 1:57 am

they do act as vanes and serve a purpose even when fully open which would help engine lifespan even if the 'stat isnt operational

in saying that theres millions of bugs world wide with no flaps in them that have lived long trouble free lives
99% of aftermarket shrouds dont have mounting provisions for them

its a rare site to see an intact setup here in aus

when they were new the dealerships were issued with bulletins saying that they needed to be removed at the first service as theyre not needed in australian conditions :roll:

ive got a fully functional setup on my factory engine and have to say the only difference ive noticed is slightly better fuel economy

Wed Nov 11, 2009 2:42 am

My 1835 doesn't have them (Arizona); it's non-doghouse, and I removed them in 1976 when I installed an external oil cooler in front of the shroud or re-located my accelerator tube through the shroud for my single weber 40DCNF, can't remember. Still running in that configuration; in "winter" I place a small piece of bent sheet metal to cover part of the oil cooler.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 3:57 am

Most bugs here in India have had them removed. I'm trying to put them back on mine -- but to your point they work without any noticeable issues. My car now has 108K km on it.

BN

Wed Nov 11, 2009 5:04 am

You don't need them! Volkswagen just installed them on millions of cars because they needed the tax write off.

They do more then just help on warm up. They are part of the cooling air management system.

Leave them in place.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 6:32 am

Take 'em off, then ship me your thermostat and actuator rod... :D

Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:11 am

My '78 has the flaps and thermostat, and I noticed that it warms up faster and actually seems to run way better in the mornings. So I just found a set on The Samba to put in to the '77. Flaps are a good thing, the VW engineers really designed the cooling system to work with the flaps - so it's probably a better idea to leave them on. It doesn't get cold here in Redding, CA either - but on those days that it's a little chilly, the bug warms up faster and runs better because of the thermostat and flaps. My .02 cents.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:02 am

mattg6o wrote: It doesnt get very cold here. getting the engine to operating temp won't be an issue. so can i strip them....
It may not be cold to you but Florida is cold as far as the engine is concerned.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:03 am

Agreed. Unless ambient is 200F in FL, your engine would appreciate the stat and flaps.

Unless you're just bored and WANT to disable well thought out engineering for no good reason, leave them in place. When you sell the car (you will, eventually) the next owner is just going to have to put them back.

M

Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:25 am

Yup, that next owner is me trying to find the stuff for my car. Wasnt originally an Idaho car, but its here now! Leave em in! Make them functional too! Your engine and the next couple of owners will appreciate it.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:34 am

drscope wrote: You don't need them! Volkswagen just installed them on millions of cars because they needed the tax write off.

Agreed. Those old Kraut engineers didn't know the half of what America's Shade Tree "mechanics" know.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:07 am

drscope wrote: You don't need them! Volkswagen just installed them on millions of cars because they needed the tax write off.

Leave them in place.

Cars are usually designed with some range of operating conditions in mind. All features are not neccessary in every operating condition. (This is not to say that they are not needed in Florida).

Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:12 am

webwalker wrote: Agreed. Unless ambient is 200F in FL, your engine would appreciate the stat and flaps.

M

The thermostat opens fully open at ~75C I think which is about 160F. The question is how quickly will the engine get to this temp without the flaps and with high ambient. This should be measurable by someone with a thermocouple or infrared temp sensor. perhaps that will reduced the speculation.

Then the only question is whether they provide noticeable benefit to the directionality of the air flow. IME, not really. -- and it's possiblycounterbalanced or offset by the fact that they are a slight impediment/drag to the airflow (all flaps are).

Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:26 am

If you take them out PM me, I'm looking for a set. The PO removed mine. Thanks.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:33 am

bnam wrote: This should be measurable by someone with a thermocouple or infrared temp sensor. perhaps that will reduce the speculation.

Then the only question is whether they provide noticeable benefit to the directionality of the air flow. IME, not really.

Aren't you engaging in that same kind of speculation? Or do you have technical data to support that statement?

Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:34 am

bnam wrote: webwalker wrote: Agreed. Unless ambient is 200F in FL, your engine would appreciate the stat and flaps.

M

The thermostat opens fully open at ~75C I think which is about 160F. The question is how quickly will the engine get to this temp without the flaps and with high ambient. This should be measurable by someone with a thermocouple or infrared temp sensor. perhaps that will reduced the speculation.

Then the only question is whether they provide noticeable benefit to the directionality of the air flow. IME, not really. -- and it's possiblycounterbalanced or offset by the fact that they are a slight impediment/drag to the airflow (all flaps are).

That is my concern. We're building a turbo motor. Will obviously generate more heat, getting to temp shouldnt be the issue. I was thinking more in terms of max airflow.

Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:38 am

Paul Windisch wrote: Take 'em off, then ship me your thermostat and actuator rod... :D

Sorry man, I already got dibs! ^^^^^
vvvvvvv

Quote: If you take them out PM me, I'm looking for a set. The PO removed mine. Thanks. [/quote]