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voner Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:18 pm

I'm not sure where to post this -- so I'm posting it on this forum.

I have a 1982 Vanagon that has a 1.6td diesel swap into it.......and I'm converting it to run also on vegetable oil.

The strong recommendation has been that I should put an additional fuel pump (lift pump)on at least the vegetable oil side.... but I don't know what the specs (especially PSI) should be for the fuel pump....

anybody know what kind of fuel pump I can put in this? As usual -- I prefer to spend the least amount of money -- I'll probably look for a used part if the money factor in the way....

Thanks!!

timv aka Voner

allsierra123 Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:29 pm

search ebay for WVO pumps or a diesel lift pump.

jackbombay Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:40 pm

Walbro FRB-11 is the pump I would use, ~7 PSI.

Bt I would never run WVO in any VW diesel, or Bio more than %20, and I have run about 1000 gallons of B-100 through my VWs. And I have paid the price, as have many of my friends, not everyone does, but...

westyventures Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:27 pm

There's nothing bad about quality biodiesel. Homebrew is another story...some good, some terrible. SVO/WVO isn't worth the hassle and broken bits down the road. FWIW, I have a copy of the self-study manual for the PD130, VW says 100% biodiesel is "recommended".

MarkWard Thu Nov 12, 2009 9:43 am

Look over here. Justin at one time was doing Vanagon conversions, so he has experience with WVO and Vanagons. http://www.greaseworks.org

allsierra123 Thu Nov 12, 2009 10:38 am

I hear its ok with the TD's but you have to be very careful with TDI's

tclark Thu Nov 12, 2009 7:22 pm

Does anyone know about using it in TDI Pumpe Deuce :)

I was hearing it no issue in those vw diesels

shameless q again is anybody here running a Pumpe Deuce in a vanagon

/me looks over at KarlM

westyventures Thu Nov 12, 2009 8:12 pm

tclark wrote: Does anyone know about using it in TDI Pumpe Deuce :)

I was hearing it no issue in those vw diesels

shameless q again is anybody here running a Pumpe Deuce in a vanagon

/me looks over at KarlM

PD130 = pumpduse
Quality biodiesel is fine in all TDIs.
There are a few PD Vanagons, but keep in mind there was an issues with premature wear of the cam$haft in these. I had a 130 I had planned to install in my highroof Syncro, but suddenly remembered why I like my fully-mechanical system so much better. :wink:

tclark Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:59 am

westyventures wrote:
there are a few PD Vanagons, but keep in mind there was an issues with premature wear of the cam$haft in these.
Karl was that for all years or just some models

westyventures Fri Nov 13, 2009 7:25 am

tclark wrote:
Karl was that for all years or just some models

Not sure, but the PD was the brainchild of VW and lasted only a couple years before it dead-ended. Other companies went directly from IDI to common rail, VW has finally followed.

the caveman Fri Nov 13, 2009 2:53 pm

I converted my 1990 transporter 2 years ago/ about 25,000 kms and not had one problem . I have converted about 32 vehicles in the past 3 1/2 years and had very few comebacks and 98 % were because of poor WVO issues [too old, not filted enough etc]. Like any other fuel, quality makes all the difference. Don't use animal fats and try to stick with canola , corn or peanut ,but not soy [it'll clog your injectors]. If the tank, filter and lines are heated and you use additional heating just before the pump [like a Vegetherm from Plantdrive], use good quality fuel hose, etc etc. you will not have problems. Make sure the WVO is filtered and dewatered, do or have the best quality installation and you will NOT have any problems.
Do NOT use a lift pump before the injection pump. It will change the internal pressure of it and will change timing and fuel management. I have never used any on a VE injection pump vehicle [like all VW diesels before the Pumpe Duse] and none ever needed it. I converted one pumpe duse and it ran fine without it. I had someone come to me that he had converted himself and he needed it mostly for climbing big hills

the caveman Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:57 pm

westyventures wrote: There's nothing bad about quality biodiesel. Homebrew is another story...some good, some terrible. SVO/WVO isn't worth the hassle and broken bits down the road. FWIW, I have a copy of the self-study manual for the PD130, VW says 100% biodiesel is "recommended".
Just on one trip last year , it cost me $2 of diesel to drive 2400 kms. All the money i have saved would more than pay for a new pump and injectors.

the caveman Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:01 pm

allsierra123 wrote: I hear its ok with the TD's but you have to be very careful with TDI's
The early TDI's before the Pumpe duse] were perfect for WVO . One of my first conversion was my 1998 Jetta TDI which is sold to a very good friend. It's still working perfect after 3 1/2 years of daily driving with ZERO problems associated with the engine fuel etc. Nice thing about them is the fuel temp sensor in the pump which adjusts timing accordingly- perfect for an alternative fuel.

Alaric.H Fri Nov 13, 2009 4:36 pm

the caveman wrote: westyventures wrote: There's nothing bad about quality biodiesel. Homebrew is another story...some good, some terrible. SVO/WVO isn't worth the hassle and broken bits down the road. FWIW, I have a copy of the self-study manual for the PD130, VW says 100% biodiesel is "recommended".
Just on one trip last year , it cost me $2 of diesel to drive 2400 kms. All the money i have saved would more than pay for a new pump and injectors. You can buy a new pump and injectors for less than 200$?

?Waldo? Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:19 pm

Alaric.H wrote: the caveman wrote: Just on one trip last year , it cost me $2 of diesel to drive 2400 kms. All the money i have saved would more than pay for a new pump and injectors. You can buy a new pump and injectors for less than 200$?

Trolling? I imagine he's taken more than the one trip. He says that ALL the money he has saved would more than pay for a new pump and injectors.

jackbombay Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:33 am

westyventures wrote:
Quality biodiesel is fine in all TDIs.

The problem is that you don't know what is coming out of the pump when you put it in your fuel tank.

Take sequential biofuels in portland oregon for example, my buddy bought all his fuel there for about 3 years, his pump went south, the pump was taken to DFIS as recommended by Sequential biofuels, DFIS said the pump failure was caused by bad fuel, Seq sells ASTM certified fuel. So either Seq was selling "bad fuel" according to people that do nothing but work on pumps, or ASTM fuel does wreck pumps. Did Seq make any attempt to correct the situation, nope.

westyventures Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:49 am

jackbombay wrote:
The problem is that you don't know what is coming out of the pump when you put it in your fuel tank.

Take sequential biofuels in portland oregon for example, my buddy bought all his fuel there for about 3 years, his pump went south, the pump was taken to DFIS as recommended by Sequential biofuels, DFIS said the pump failure was caused by bad fuel, Seq sells ASTM certified fuel. So either Seq was selling "bad fuel" according to people that do nothing but work on pumps, or ASTM fuel does wreck pumps. Did Seq make any attempt to correct the situation, nope.

I guess in a case like this I would have tested the fuel in the tank to verify if it was in fact the problem, or whether the pump 'failed' on it's own. If it was a leakage issue, then that in itself would not be considered failure. A good friend of mine makes some of the best biodiesel from local WVO using a commercial processor. He has shown me the differences in fuel based on oils used and how well the processing was done, and yes, there can be a huge range.

If a pump starts leaking on ULSD, I don't blame the fuel manufacturer. So we need more information of the type of failure your buddy's pump experienced.

jackbombay Sat Nov 14, 2009 6:17 pm

westyventures wrote: jackbombay wrote:
The problem is that you don't know what is coming out of the pump when you put it in your fuel tank.

Take sequential biofuels in portland oregon for example, my buddy bought all his fuel there for about 3 years, his pump went south, the pump was taken to DFIS as recommended by Sequential biofuels, DFIS said the pump failure was caused by bad fuel, Seq sells ASTM certified fuel. So either Seq was selling "bad fuel" according to people that do nothing but work on pumps, or ASTM fuel does wreck pumps. Did Seq make any attempt to correct the situation, nope.

I guess in a case like this I would have tested the fuel in the tank to verify if it was in fact the problem, or whether the pump 'failed' on it's own. If it was a leakage issue, then that in itself would not be considered failure. A good friend of mine makes some of the best biodiesel from local WVO using a commercial processor. He has shown me the differences in fuel based on oils used and how well the processing was done, and yes, there can be a huge range.

If a pump starts leaking on ULSD, I don't blame the fuel manufacturer. So we need more information of the type of failure your buddy's pump experienced.

The car still drove, and my friend drove it 800 miles to my house so when he got to my home the car had petro diesel in it for the first time in years, and obviously no fuel to test. But thats largely irrelevant as the internal pump parts that were damaged (in addition to external leaks) were damaged by long term exposure to bad fuel, that according to DFIS who is largely considered to tbe the TDI IP experts.

westyventures Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:00 pm

jackbombay wrote:

But thats largely irrelevant as the internal pump parts that were damaged (in addition to external leaks) were damaged by long term exposure to bad fuel, that according to DFIS who is largely considered to tbe the TDI IP experts.

Still, more info needed - what parts, how were they damaged, photos?

jackbombay Sat Nov 14, 2009 8:04 pm

westyventures wrote: jackbombay wrote:

But thats largely irrelevant as the internal pump parts that were damaged (in addition to external leaks) were damaged by long term exposure to bad fuel, that according to DFIS who is largely considered to tbe the TDI IP experts.

Still, more info needed - what parts, how were they damaged, photos?

I was 800 miles from their shop, and badgering them for pictures and info would have led to nothing as Seq had already stated that they had no intention of "making it right". I have had many pumps rebuilt by DFIS and they have always been straightforward and easy to work with, I have ZERO reason to doubt their assessment of the situation.



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