TheSamba.com :: View topic - Getting new 127 (1800cc) engine ready to go

Thu Nov 19, 2009 12:28 am

Here is a VW factory valve cover install. All four covers on the two engines had the VW symbol upside down, and the bend in the bale pointing up.

Since the engine has been sitting unrun for better than three decades I figured the bearings were going to be getting a little dry, so I dumped a half quart of oil through a funnel into the oil galleys. The funnel is sold for use with Coleman style gasoline stoves and lights and has a very fine mess screen that will hopefully keep any and all nasties from getting into the oil galleys.

Here are the connections for the exhaust gas supply and return for the manifold heat. I need to come up with a way to duplicate this using a bus exhaust.

Supply

Return

Fri Nov 27, 2009 3:37 pm

I got a chance to work on the engine a bit today. Some things were good and some horrid. So much for German attention to detail.

The head torques were pretty good. Every head bolt was withing a couple of foot pounds of where it was supposed to be, but the valve adjustments were way off. Ranging from about .001 to .010, with most of them being at .003. None were even close to .006" which is what the sticker calls for.

I also checked the head volume by filling the #3 cylinder with oil while it was at TDC compression. I first set the engine with the #3-4 head down and the valves on #3 open to drain out any oil which might have been sitting in the cylinders (I had earlier squirted oil in the cylinders to get some lubricant in there). After I deemed the oil well drained I leveled the engine and set it at TDC #3. Using a syringe I filled the cylinder to the top of the spark plug hole where I verified that it was at exactly TDC by rocking the crank back and forth a bit and watching the oil level in the hole. The amount of oil to fill to the top of the spark plug hole was 64cc and if I sucked the oil out about 1/2 inch down the spark plug hole I got 62cc. This gave a compression ratio of somewhere around 8.0:1 - 8.3:1. I can't say that the tiny squish area at the top of the cylinder next to the spark plug hole was filled with oil or had an air bubble, but the true static compression ratio should be very close to the numbers I got.

My sources tell me that these engines run very well and have the same torque as a 2.0. I suspect its the compression ratio which is making up for the smaller displacement.

I may go back and check the compression volume on #1 as well to see what it works out to.

Fri Nov 27, 2009 4:12 pm

all this theoretical stuff, why not just drive it and tell us what it goes like,gas mileage etc? :idea:

Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:17 pm

I did the volume check on the #1 cylinder and it came out to 66cc with the oil to the top of the spark plug threads and 64 cc with the oil about 1/2" down. About 2cc's more volume than #3 had. This corresponds to a compression ratio of 7.8:1 - 8.0:1 still significantly higher than a stock automotive 1800cc T-4 engine. Maybe VW figured that with this particular incarnation of a T4 engine with a fairly small one barrel carb they could run higher compression.

The valve retainers are also different from stock. Maybe someone else can tell me why the difference.

Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:38 pm

They look a little like shims to make up for shorter springs, being a constant RPM application there would be no need for heavy springs and weak springs may even provide some over rev protection as well as extend cam life. Just a theory though, they aren't mounted on thrust bearings like an MB engine are they?

As for the wild differences in rocker adjustment? could there be some sort of thick petrified cam lube effecting clearances? Or maybe the manual specs a readjust after 1 hour of operation so initial setup really doesn't matter, another shot in the dark.

Fri Nov 27, 2009 6:53 pm

busdaddy wrote: They look a little like shims to make up for shorter springs, being a constant RPM application there would be no need for heavy springs and weak springs may even provide some over rev protection as well as extend cam life. Just a theory though, they aren't mounted on thrust bearings like an MB engine are they?

As for the wild differences in rocker adjustment? could there be some sort of thick petrified cam lube effecting clearances? Or maybe the manual specs a readjust after 1 hour of operation so initial setup really doesn't matter, another shot in the dark.

I had wondered if the retainers may have some kind of internal bearing to promote valve rotation. Don't really feel like tearing into anything that far to find out though.

These engines were run in at the factory so I can't imagine that any goo on the can would have survived. :? I would also think that VW would already have reset the valve clearances after the run in, but maybe not. I will definitely check the clearances again after I have had the engine hot and under load once. In fact I am thinking of going to Porsche style adjusters so maybe I will do that at the same time, just need to find a premo set of 1700 rockers.

Fri Nov 27, 2009 9:08 pm

Wildthings wrote: I had wondered if the retainers may have some kind of internal bearing to promote valve rotation.

yes, exactly, that is what they are.

Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:49 pm

Here is an 127 engine on the move, being loaded in Colombia (now in Panama). Covered 23000km's in South America, coming to a state near you!

Sat Nov 28, 2009 5:52 pm

Bursch wrote: Here is an 127 engine on the move, being loaded in Colombia (now in Panama). Covered 23000km's in South America, coming to a state near you!

Very cool. Any comments about it? Do you have dual carbs, FI, or a single carb?

Sat Nov 28, 2009 6:05 pm

Wildthings wrote: Bursch wrote: Here is an 127 engine on the move, being loaded in Colombia (now in Panama). Covered 23000km's in South America, coming to a state near you!

Very cool. Any comments about it? Do you have dual carbs, FI, or a single carb? A friend of mine is running that Globus, IIRC he's running dual carbs and converted it to 12V.

Sun Nov 29, 2009 11:06 am

yup those are rotators. They promote longevity and even seat wear. They also help with valve cooling.

Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:43 pm

I want rotaters!

Tue Dec 15, 2009 9:30 am

Any updates?

Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:55 am

Nica wrote: Any updates?

Sorry not much of any. Too cold for a while to mess with it and now the tin for the old engine, which I will be using on the new, is buried under the snow in the back of my pickup. I took it to the car wash to hose it off and was going to take it to a friends place with a nice heated shop to paint it. Now its buried, will dig it out later today.

I did get a muffler from BD so I can start figuring out how I am going to hook up the heat riser to it.

Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:53 pm

Hi,

I also have an type 127 1800cc engine.
It runs very good. It has original dual solex 40mm.
(about 68 HP and a lot of torque) It runs faster then my mate his 2.0 CU.

The end of this month I will install 2x 40mm webers (so 4x40mm)