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Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:34 am

Hello everyone.

I have been on thesamba for a couple of weeks looking for a bus -- and I bought one yesterday! This truly is a GREAT SITE!

This is an 81 Westy that is not running. The PO thinks it is a wire that goes from the alternator to the battery. I have the remnants of this cord but not sure if I should just go ahead and make one or if there is a source for these.

Any guidance or help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Scott

Mon Nov 16, 2009 11:41 am

Use a jumper to prove that the wire is indeed bad before throwing money at it.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 12:14 pm

Pretty sure it is -- it's burned in half. There are two wires involved here - do both of them to go the same terminal on the starter?

Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:12 pm

soyer38301 wrote: Pretty sure it is -- it's burned in half. There are two wires involved here - do both of them to go the same terminal on the starter?

No, one comes from the starter positive pole, and the other goes back toward the starter and over into the wiring connector box on the left-front wall of the engine bay. Inside the box is a #30 (unfused, unswitched battery positive power) post. That is the source for powering the FI and ignition. So both wires have to be intact at the alternator, and it is a good idea to upsize the one fro the starter because it will carry the full alternator output to the battery (via the starter main wire).

Mon Nov 16, 2009 2:16 pm

Hello and congrats on joining the obsession.

First things first though. If your subject line was more descriptive, you would attract much more assistance. There are quite a few air cooled guys that post here, but without a better idea of your dilemma, you will not attract many readers.

So.. First thing to do is get yourself a copy of the Bentley service manual for your Van. You will need it.

Next, carefully inspect all of your fuel lines. Far too many of these cool old buses are lost to fire. If there is any doubt, its time for new lines.

Best of luck!

Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:15 pm

Thanks - I will keep that in mind for any future posts.

I just got it home last night (actually this morning at about 1:00 am) so I am going to start going through it when I get home this evening.

Scott

Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:20 pm

tencentlife wrote: soyer38301 wrote: Pretty sure it is -- it's burned in half. There are two wires involved here - do both of them to go the same terminal on the starter?

No, one comes from the starter positive pole, and the other goes back toward the starter and over into the wiring connector box on the left-front wall of the engine bay. Inside the box is a #30 (unfused, unswitched battery positive power) post. That is the source for powering the FI and ignition. So both wires have to be intact at the alternator, and it is a good idea to upsize the one fro the starter because it will carry the full alternator output to the battery (via the starter main wire).

So this diagram is not accurate or am I reading it incorrectly?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/80-81vanagonwiring2.jpg

Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:38 pm

soyer38301 wrote: Thanks - I will keep that in mind for any future posts.

I just got it home last night (actually this morning at about 1:00 am) so I am going to start going through it when I get home this evening.

Scott

Hi Scott....Im one of those whos full of air and OilNBolts speaks not with fork tongue.
If your not sure of the history of your newest of acquisitions one of the most important tasks you can do is to re-do the fuel lines and make sure to use the correct hose clamps.

It would not matter (to us it would and to you it would too) if you spent time and money on various parts and then have your new Van go up in smoke because the fuel lines were 20 something years old.

If your looking for a Bentley Manual check out the Parts Section here on The Samba. Good deals await you.

Welcome aboard.....stay calm.....ask a shit load of questions.....be at ease on the gas pedal.....make sure you have a complete engine to body seal.....use the correct oil for your environment.....and most of all,have safe and happy trails for you and yours. :D

Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:06 pm

soyer38301 wrote: Pretty sure it is -- it's burned in half. There are two wires involved here - do both of them to go the same terminal on the starter?

You have not asked the question, however:

How exactly did two battery wires burn in half? They don't do that spontaneously. They do it when something else is wrong. And if you haven't fixed that "something else", when you connect a new wire, that one might burn in half too... or it might do other damage. So please do check all your wiring while you're checking your fuel lines.

Mon Nov 16, 2009 5:32 pm

That is the plan - to check everything. I think I will start this tomorrow though -- didn't get back until 1:00 am or so and after working all day I would rather start on a fresh "brain" -- mine is a little mushy right now.

Thanks for all the advise. I will let you know when I get it running and what I found.

Thanks again.

Scott

Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:08 pm

I did go take a look at the engine compartment. I have a theory as to what may have happened unless someone can "de-bunk" it.

The hole that the wires pass through to get to the front side of the engine wall has no grommet - only the bare metal. It could have worn through the insulation and shorted the wires. While the metal is not exceedingly sharp it might explain what happened.

I will still check all connections and wiring that I can prior to trying to fire it up again.

Could a bad voltage regulator cause something like this also, or a shorted wire somewhere...or a combination.. :-)

Scott

Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:08 pm

soyer38301 wrote: tencentlife wrote: soyer38301 wrote: Pretty sure it is -- it's burned in half. There are two wires involved here - do both of them to go the same terminal on the starter?

No, one comes from the starter positive pole, and the other goes back toward the starter and over into the wiring connector box on the left-front wall of the engine bay. Inside the box is a #30 (unfused, unswitched battery positive power) post. That is the source for powering the FI and ignition. So both wires have to be intact at the alternator, and it is a good idea to upsize the one fro the starter because it will carry the full alternator output to the battery (via the starter main wire).

So this diagram is not accurate or am I reading it incorrectly?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiring/80-81vanagonwiring2.jpg

OOPs, my bad, I was describing the later versions, forgot yours is aircooled. You have the diagram you need, carry on (which makes me wonder why you asked in the first place, but whatever.....).

Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:11 pm

;-) - no problem. I am asking because, while I am rather handy, I have never owned a VW before much less an air cooled vehicle.

Looks like both wires go to the 30 terminal - which might make sense. Only connected to the starter when the key is switched to start.

Thanks.

Scott

Mon Nov 16, 2009 6:42 pm

Just thinking with my fingers..

The PO stated that he pulled both of what was left of the wires off the starter...according to the wiring diagram they should both be connected to terminal 30 which is only connected to the starter when you "start" it...

hmmm

Scott

Mon Nov 16, 2009 8:02 pm

You are in for some fun and definitely get the Bentley. You have may have more than 2 wires attached to terminal 30. Take your time and make sure you have everything there in place. I haven't had to mess with the starter so someone else chime in. I am just going off of the diagram...it looks like the alternator wiring goes through terminal 30 too.

Good luck

Tue Nov 17, 2009 12:28 am

#30 is the B+ or 12+ terminal on the solenoid, the big one with the nut on it, this terminal will be hot anytime the battery cables are connected. #50 is the energizer terminal for the solenoid. It has either one or two male spade connectors for wires to plug into and should be hot only when the key is in the start position. There may also be another set of spades on the solenoid that VW never shows in their schematics. Often the wire that is shown running from #50 to the fuel pump relay is actually hooked to this unnamed terminal.

Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:59 pm

Started going through things tonight. Fuel lines look good. Hooked the wires from the alternator to the positive terminal of the starter. Hooked the battery up. Went through and cleaned the ends of the "fuses" and the holder brackets.

Charged the battery for a little while and have 12.4 volts at the battery. Tried to start it -- think I heard the fuel pump but nothing as far as turning over.

Checked the voltage at the starter and it is only 8 volts while the battery was still above 12V.

Can anyone give any guidance as to where to look next or what might cause this?

Thanks.

Scott

Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:23 pm

Bad connections either on the positive side or in the grounds. Search it out with the meter, a voltage drop that bad should be easy to find.

Tue Nov 17, 2009 8:26 pm

I was just going over the wiring diagram to map out where I want to start checking voltages -- I will more than likely not get back to it until tomorrow.

Thanks.

Scott

Tue Nov 17, 2009 9:03 pm

Check your way down the wires from the battery to the starter, to the chassis to the battery again. Battery post to cable terminal, terminal to cable, cable to cable terminal at the starter, etc, etc, etc all the way back to the battery through the grounds.